F150 "Lion" Diesel Expectations - Ford F150 Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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F150 "Lion" Diesel Expectations


JLR+Ford Merger History

Lets get one thing straight, this 3.0-liter V6 Diesel is nothing new, it has a history that stretches all the way back to when Ford owned JLR. Currently, you can find this engine in the Range Rover HSE making 254 horsepower and 440 lb.ft of torque.

Quote:
Caught earlier testing on Michigan roads, this emissions certificate on the prototype truck indicates it will be a 3.0L unit, rather than the 3.2 that’s offered in the Transit. The JFC1-3.0-966 on the sticker is the emissions calibration code. The JFC1 is the control unit catchword, ironically the same catchword used in the ’04 Taurus with a 3.0L. The 3.0 is the engine displacement, and the 966 is the last three digits of the vehicle tag number.

This further confirms that Ford will use the Lion V6 found in Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) products, such as the Range Rover. The engine was developed while Ford still owned JLR.

The F-150 Diesel is also identified by the diesel venturi exhaust tip. An earlier video confirmed that it sounded notably more diesel-like when running than the EcoBoost V6s that are already offered on the truck.
- SEMA

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3.0L Lion V-6 Diesel Specifications

Although this years Detroit show was our first official look at the all-new F150 Diesel, Ford is still tight-lipped about anything to do with it. However, going off of what we know from the above point, speculation and the one fact that we'll get a 10-speed automatic, you can begin to connect the dots. DieselHub put together a short list of specifications:

Quote:
3.0L Lion V-6 Diesel Specifications
  • Configuration: 60 V-6
  • Displacement: 183 cid, 3.0 liters
  • Engine Block Material: Compacted graphite iron (CGI)
  • Cyl Head Material: Aluminum alloy
  • Cylinder Bore: 3.31 in (84.0 mm)
  • Cylinder Stroke: 3.54 in (90.0 mm)
  • Injection: 29,000 psi high pressure common rail, Piezoelectric injectors
  • Aspiration: Variable geometry turbocharger (VGT), air-to-air intercooler
  • Valvetrain: DOHC, 4v per cylinder
  • Horsepower: 254 hp @ 3,500 rpm
  • Torque: 443 lb-ft @ 1,750 rpm
  • Fuel Economy**: 22 city, 28 hwy mpg

The Lion's 60 degree "V" configuration results in a narrower engine than that of a typical 90 degree, thus reducing overall engine width and possibly broadening the engine's application range. Range Rover models equipped with the 3.0L diesel employ a ZF 8 speed automatic transmission; it's difficult to speculate what Ford has in mind for the F-150, but it is bringing a 10 speed automatic to market. Whether or not this transmission can be adapted to the Lion V-6 is difficult to assess with what little is known about the future diesel option. If Ford sticks with a 6 speed automatic, the current standard for all F-150 models, they're unlikely to meet fuel efficiency targets. For the a diesel equipped F-150 to truly hit a home run, it will need to edge Ram's EcoDiesel powered 1500 model.
- DieselHub.com


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EPA-Estimated MPG?

On Ford's radar is what the competition gets, primarily the RAM 1500 Diesel. From all the information we have on the "Lion" 3.0-liter V6 Diesel the numbers come down to around 22mpg city, 28mpg highway and 25 combined. Unlike the RAM, Ford will be using a 10-Speed Automatic. Tough to say what influence that transmission will have on the Lion but anything that tops the Range Rover HSE will keep Ford ahead of the competition.
Quote:
Several engines are available.New for 2016 is the Range Rover Td6 with a turbodiesel 3.0-liter V6 making 440 foot-pounds of torque and 254 horsepower that gets an EPA-estimated 25 miles per gallon Combined city and highway.Land Rover says the Range Rover Td6 can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in 7.4 seconds.Range Rover Td6 offers a range of more than 600 miles and retails for $1,500 more than the standard gasoline V
- AutoBlog


Quote:
Improvements are of course made to the Range Rover’s fuel efficiency and overall driving range. Compared to the gasoline V-6, the diesel offers a 32-percent improvement to fuel efficiency, bringing the estimated mpg numbers to 22 city, 28 highway, and 25 combined mpg. Total driving distance for one tank of fuel is extended to a bladder-busting 658 miles.
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Key Features

As you know this is no overnight success, development stretching since Ford owned JLR, and naturally from all that time and millions you can set your expectations high enough. Yes, Ford will be getting a version of this and not everything its Range Rover uncle runs but a good portion of what it has could very well stand.
Quote:
While Land Rover engineers promise the Td6 been completely reworked, the architecture’s basically been around forever. It started life as a Ford engine, has been in a bunch of Land Rover vehicles since Ford’s ownership of the company, and has now been brought up to America’s tough emissions standards in its latest round of updates.

You won’t sweat where it came from once you drive it though, the engine’s full 440 lb-ft of torque comes on at just 1,750 RPM and yeah you’ll feel it in your ass alright. Horsepower is rated at a respectable 254 horsepower.

Where you won’t feel it everywhere else. Land Rover’s added more padding to the firewall and acoustic laminated glass to diesel models to subdue the “diesel experience” your mom might remember (smelly and clunky) but even standing outside with the hood open, you can barely hear this baby clatter.

If you want your diesel to sound like a bag of bearings in a dryer, you might want to keep your Cummins. But you’re probably not in the market for a Range Rover anyway.

The Td6 relies on a lot of variability to maximize efficiency. That’s the takeaway from things like “two-stage oil pump” and “controllable water pump.” Subsystems are designed to work as little as possible to minimize engine load.

Just like the Ram EcoDiesel and big rigs, this engine uses “diesel emissions fluid” (DEF) to help cut down on pollution. It’s a blue juice you add to a separate filler every 10,000 miles or so, available at any auto parts store or for much more money at your local Land Rover dealer.
- Jalopnik
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 11:51 AM
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Can we really say that it'll have those specs for horsepower and torque for sure though? Even if it's the same engine that's been used before and used now, that doesn't necessarily mean it has the same outputs.

The Ecoboost engine is in 4 different vehicles I think, all with different outputs from it.

They could have it tuned differently.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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No one is saying it will make those exact figures of power and torque and that's not the way to think about this. There are always differences to be found although this started life in a Ford R&D facility. What you should take those number as however, are ranges. Different applications call for different things.

All Ford needs to do is ensure whatever they produce that it keeps them ahead of the pack, can't let RAM take the spotlight.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 03:55 PM
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254 horsepower and 440 pound-feet of torque is the bare minimum for the upcoming F-150 as that's what the Range Rover can crank out. We can expect to see even more torque in a pickup since it needs to haul or tow more weight. Even if it's tuned to have the same output as the rover, it'll still marginally beat the Ram 1500's EcoDiesel V6, which makes 240 hp and 420 lb-ft of torque.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, it's the power it makes and how it makes that power and being a truck there should be more emphasis on its ability to tow and how that compares to what the market is asking for. Fortunately this is a micro segment that has more drivers that don't do towing than those that do.

These are daily drivers that are straight up SUV substitutes.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 12:25 PM
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Marginal differences away from the Ram, now what are the overall curb weight differences and gearing. That's what really have a noticeable difference.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Actually, i'm not nearly as concerned with that as I am with where and how much these are making power because with all the weight saving efforts happening industry wide, and its how these make power and where they make power that can make the difference in how its weight feels
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 03:55 PM
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Won't be anything less than 4600lbs I'm pretty sure. Gearing will tie into where the more usable power will be and how to set yourself when hauling anything, etc.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Smokin View Post
Won't be anything less than 4600lbs I'm pretty sure. Gearing will tie into where the more usable power will be and how to set yourself when hauling anything, etc.
Well, currently they weight right around that, 4621 if you want to be exact.

Unless Ford has more ways to cut weight by time the diesel comes to market at best they'll stay ranging in that 4600 area.
Plus there's little else they need to cut when compared to the competition, Ford is well ahead, its all they need to worry about.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 02:05 PM
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I guess the main thing it comes down to is making it incrementally better than the prior. The new redesign does more than enough and now the diesel option pushes them that much more. They're already ahead of the competition and sales speak that enough.
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