Help me understand the implications of keeping DPF and EGR installed - Ford F150 Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Help me understand the implications of keeping DPF and EGR installed

Hello,

Just bought a 3.0l 2018 Lariat new off the lot 87 kilometers on it, all my other diesel experience has been pre-DPF; 2005 6.0L (Great Truck and Engine/Transmission) and currently I have a TD42t in a Nissan Patrol 12v I6 idi with a great big intercooler and turbo it has mountains of torque.

I am well versed mechanically so i understand the logic behind adding supplementary oil air filters like a MANN ProVent or blocking the EGR entirely to keep your intake clean of oil and residue..

Also i suspect the idea of removing the DPF is to open up the exhaust and get it breathing easier for more power. Additionally i remember the 6.4l power stroke fiasco when the early re-generation cycle logic dumped diesel into a few back cylinders to accomplish the high regen temps and would burn up the back cylinders from very high EGT over the long run.

I also understand the environmental aspects of removing these systems..

So here comes my question, with all that being said both of these are a non-issue if the factory did adequate engineering in the first place.. If i leave these on my truck and plan to get a tune.. will they (DPF/EGR) negatively effect my long term reliability in any way ?

I was looking at the MBRP 3.5" installer series kit, but i wanted to confirm it was even worth while before i changed anything.. how big is the factory exhaust 3" ? is it restrictive ?
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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does anyone know how high the EGT's get on re-gen ?
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 09:50 PM
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1000-1200F are what my 3 EGT sensors report.

2018 Ford F-150 King Ranch 3.0L Power Stroke 4x4 | Icon 2.5 Front & 2.0 Rear, Toyo AT II 295/60R20, 3" ProComp Rear Block, S&B Dry CAI, LineX & BakFlip MX4, BuiltRight Seat Release | ForScan Mods: Disable Double Honk, 2x Panic, DPF Full %, Digital Temps Above Gauges, A.S.S Disabled
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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thats not good for the longevity of any engine.. my other diesel i have spent a very lot of money on to ensure it doesn't get above 550 C which is 1022 F.. mind you this is post turbo..

do you know the location of the factory probes ?
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 10:22 PM
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In the exhaust.

Check out the 3.0 coffee table book for locations.

https://www.forddoctorsdts.com/coffeetablebooks.html/

2018 Ford F-150 King Ranch 3.0L Power Stroke 4x4 | Icon 2.5 Front & 2.0 Rear, Toyo AT II 295/60R20, 3" ProComp Rear Block, S&B Dry CAI, LineX & BakFlip MX4, BuiltRight Seat Release | ForScan Mods: Disable Double Honk, 2x Panic, DPF Full %, Digital Temps Above Gauges, A.S.S Disabled
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
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I looked at its location in the book, for the temp to be getting that hot that far from the turbo outlet you have to be just cooking your heads, turbo and exhaust.. suppose i may look a bit harder at that MBRP 3.5" system when i get the truck.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 08:37 AM
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1 big thing that you will see, if you delete the EGR = less soot in the oil. I deleted my Ram Ecodiesel at 5,000 miles and change oil and sent to Blackstone Labs. Oil was very black, showed a fair bit of soot. After delete, changed my oil at 15,000 miles (10,000) on the oil, it was almost as clean as out of the bottle. Blackstone showed 4X's less soot. Also my regens went from once every 150 miles to once every 775 miles! IMHO, less soot has got to be better for your motor.

2017 Ram Ecodiesel, 2008 Arctic Cat turbo diesel
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 01:48 PM
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I did a bit of research on this a while ago while I was considering a delete, and with the newer systems the raw fuel is injected into the exhaust stroke (on all cylinders), however it does NOT combust there increasing temperatures on the engine and turbo. So you shouldn't see much of an increase in oil or EGT at the heads during regen on these, or 6.7 engines. It's a tricky feat of engineering and chemistry, but the fuel mapping will change during a regen allowing for increased excess oxygen in the exhaust (EGR will close during this, and DEF use will increase to counteract the increased NOX production which results from higher cylinder temperatures), you will get slightly higher cylinder temperatures due to this, but this would only be due to the EGR being shut down and greater availability of oxygen. The key to it all is the Diesel Oxidation Catalyist (DOC); The raw hydrocarbons from the fuel injected on the exhaust stroke combine with the excess oxygen in the exhaust, and when this hits the DOC, the hydrocarbons oxidize at this point to create the heat to clean the DPF. Once I learned this, my concerns with the DPF went away knowing that it doesn't hurt your engine in the same way that the older systems did (i.e. 6.4).

With that i'm much more comfortable running the system until there is a major issue with the DPF system that would cost a lot to fix... for example if i had the choice to delete, or replace the DOC and DPF, I would just delete at that point to save money - but ford says you should be good to 200,000 miles or something like that. As for the added soot from the EGR system, you can counteract this with more regular oil changes to make sure nothing major builds up, but the new oil formulations are excellent at suspending soot particles, where any larger ones that can affect engine wear are easily removed by the filter. Another thing that i hear often is that the fuel being added gets washed off the cylinder walls and dilutes the oil... well the 24000 psi injection on these engines basically fully atomizes the fuel, so it's not like it's spraying in liquid form on the cylinder walls... it's essentially a gas at that temperature which is easily pushed out during the exhaust stroke. There may be a minuscule amount that makes it into the engine oil, but if you change your oil regularly, this will never be enough to affect your viscosity, and just in case I use a 5W40 oil to ensure there will be no issues from that. In the end, if you're not looking to tune your engine for big power or something like that, leave the system in place and change your oil regularly, and it should be reliable for a long time.

As an environmental scientist i'm also happy to do this from an air quality standpoint, as fine particulate matter is terrible for the lungs and contributes significantly to cancer rates, and NOx is terrible for all of your lungs, smog, and acid rain.. With the system in place, you're emissions are down 20-100 fold over a non DPF/EGR engine. Another thing that I like to see is when I look into my tail pipe vs say that of an ecoboost (or any turbo gasoline engine for that matter), my pipe is clean as a whistle and theirs are black. Soot production is a result of too much fuel and not enough air in the mix, so these engines produce lots of soot as well off the line before your turbo spools up enough to supply adequate air... So it may only be a matter of time before DPF is needed on gas engines as well.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 03:06 PM
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I deleted mine at 17k kms I don’t like regen the one time my cummins went into regen the bottom end spun a bearing after unloading my trailer and going to the store . So I delete everything . With all the regen questions I’ve seen in here I’m glad my truck never went into regen once before deleting . Best truck I’ve had to date now with 30k kms
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Chapman View Post
I deleted mine at 17k kms I donít like regen the one time my cummins went into regen the bottom end spun a bearing after unloading my trailer and going to the store . So I delete everything . With all the regen questions Iíve seen in here Iím glad my truck never went into regen once before deleting . Best truck Iíve had to date now with 30k kms
Interesting, Kyle. Kindof why I deleted my Ecodiesel. Up to 5% of all of the Ecodiesels have failed, most from "spun bearings"! Haven't heard of any deleted ones failing. DEF injection does not hurt your motor or mpgs, but after seeing my brother having to have his F250 towed to dealer a couple times, convinced me that deleting it for $50 was a good deal. Ram has an 8 gallon Def tank, figure , once cleaned, could be converted to a water methanol injection tank. Or Moonshine, JK..

2017 Ram Ecodiesel, 2008 Arctic Cat turbo diesel
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