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3.0 V6 Diesel - Main & Big end bearing information request

5463 Views 13 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  brownfox, 
B
Hello,

I have a 2008 Land Rover Discovery with the 2.7 litre version of the Ford 3.0 V6 you get in the 2018 onwards F150. I am currently rebuilding the car in Scotland.

I'm looking for main and big end bearings, but in Europe you can't get the OEM bearings (engine is used in Jaguar, Land Rovers and Citroens - no one lists the bearings). You can get after market bearings from KING or FAI. But the OEM bearings are available in different tolerances to give the ideal running clearances (and hence best oil pressure). The aftermarket bearing are not, so I am trying to obtain Ford bearings.

Looking on Ford USA parts web sites you can order the relevant bearings. Example:

Crankshaft/Pistons and Bearings - 2018 Ford F-150 (fordpartsgiant.com)

BUT I am not 100% sure that the bearing journal sizes are the same and I need to obtain the Ford sizing chart to be able to select the right 'color' (tolerance) bearing.

I know that in Europe the 2.7 liter & 3.0 Liter have/had the same journal diameters, the only difference is that at some point the main bearings gained an anti rotation tab - you can machine in a slot in the main bearing caps to accommodate this in the earlier engine.

Request/Questions:
  1. Do you know the main and big end bearing journal diameters on the 3.0 V6 Lion as fitted to the F150?
  2. Do you know of a source for the bearing sizing chart (color codes) or the engine workshop manual?
I'd appreciate any help you can offer.

Adrian

P.s. If you are interested my rebuild can be seen on this forum:

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Rusty boot floor / Body removal
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Dunrollin
Welcome, Adrian! Great to have you with us. You are way ahead of us as most of our trucks are still under warranty and most are not in need of repairs. Hopefully someone will chime in that can answer your question. I have watched the videos of Piston Broke as he overhauled a Range Rover and am very impressed with our little diesels.

I love your body lift device, true driveway engineering at its best.
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mcarlo86
I thought I read somewhere that Ford changed the crank shafts in the 3.0's when they adapted them for the F150's. I will try to find where I read that.
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Mcarlo,

Yes they did make changes, but to what? They advertised the fact it is now a forged crank. Beyond that information seems scant. I read some where (and now can't find it) that the big end journals were increased in size - now I have my crank on my bench it is clear that this would strengthen the crank webs and help avoid the fatigue failure issues we have in the Land Rover application.

But this would mean that main bearings could be the same size & potentially have newer higher rated shell materials.

I'm interested in this as I have worn bearings (precautionary strip down - engine ran fine). But on looking at the design the bearing is very, very narrow compared to it's diameter. This will mean that journal wear will quickly cause low oil pressure. Low oil pressure will cause contact, bearing wear and then I think the crank defects on each engine revolution and fails through fatigue.

Also Ford have at least 3 different main bearing shells for a standard main bearing to get exactly the right clearance - After market bearings are just one size only. So you might be OK, but could have poor oil pressure immediately if you go the aftermarket route.

So looking to see if I can fit bearings out of your version of the engine into mine! Its even more attractive as you can actually buy the bearings - we can't in europe.

Thanks for the interest and information to date - much appreciated!

Adrian
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mcarlo86
@Breg90 I was prowling around on the web and came across the disco3 forum that you are on. I can't for the life of me find where I saw the specs on the crank and bearing upgrades that Ford engineers did on the 3.0 before they put them in the F-150. It would be interesting how much different the crank actually is in the 3.0 Powerstroke vs the 2.7 that you have.
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Dunrollin
Although it now wears a Power Stroke badge, the 3.0-liter V-6 has an international pedigree. Commonly referred to as the Lion engine, it was jointly developed by Ford with PSA Peugeot Citroën years ago and is currently used in some Land Rover products. We previously detailed how Ford beefed it up for domestic truck duty, but here's a brief refresher: The block is a compacted graphite-iron casting, and new components include a forged crankshaft with specific rod and crank bearings and a variable-geometry turbocharger. The common-rail fuel injection runs at 29,000 psi, while twin fuel filters and a dual-stage oil pump address purity and lubrication issues. Although its 250-hp figure may seem a little weak in the knees, it's the 440 lb-ft of torque that is of interest to those who work their trucks hard. A 10-speed automatic is the sole transmission option. (Here's our complete rundown on the new engine and transmission.)
Click to expand...
from Car and Driver

From their complete rundown article is this:
To ensure that the engine has the grit to stand up to the abuse of domestic-pickup-truck owners, Ford began the overhaul at the bottom by fitting the 3.0-liter V-6 with a forged crankshaft, like the one found in the 2.7-liter EcoBoost gasoline engine, complemented by purpose-designed main and rod bearings.
Click to expand...
. While it is possible the bearings are interchangable it would be surprising.
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S
This info is from the 2019 F150 Service Manual for the 3.0L Diesel engine:
2262
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B
2
STIAJW,

Appreciate the information - Thanks! I have set out what I have found in the PDF for your information:

Some follow on questions if you don't mind?
1/. Does the F150 service manual have the sizing charts to select the right combination of bearing colors to get the right clearances?
2/. Is there a source for this magical service manual!!

Thanks,

Adrian

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I should have also stated that the main and journal sizes seem to be the same on the 2.7, 3.0 and the 'American' 3.0.
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Breg90,
I'm not finding any info in the service manual regarding the coding of bearing colors to achieve the specified bearing clearances. The service manual advises to use Plastigage to determine the bearing clearance, but does not provide guidance as to what to do if the bearing clearance is out of spec.
The service manual as a multi-page pdf may be available via ebay sellers.
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B
Thought I would come back and update. Based on STIAJW's info I ordered a pair of bearings for the mains and big ends - I went with the 'yellow' size. No idea if a yellow bearing is the smallest, biggest. Delivery from the US was sooooo slooow.

Any way visually they are the same size. See the picture below. From left to right - LR 2.7 main lower bearing - Ford F150 3.0 main lower bearing - LR 2.7 main upper bearing - Ford F150 main upper bearing.

I believe that the only difference is the bearing coating. Hopefully it's better than the green coating we had.

2321


I have now ordered the other sizes (red and Blue) so that I can measure up and trial fit in each location to determine the right bearing for each loaction. I will also have to relive the main bearing caps to account for the anti rotation tabs.

Any way thanks for your input Gents.

Adrian
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B
Breg90 said:
Thought I would come back and update. Based on STIAJW's info I ordered a pair of bearings for the mains and big ends - I went with the 'yellow' size. No idea if a yellow bearing is the smallest, biggest. Delivery from the US was sooooo slooow.

Any way visually they are the same size. See the picture below. From left to right - LR 2.7 main lower bearing - Ford F150 3.0 main lower bearing - LR 2.7 main upper bearing - Ford F150 main upper bearing.

I believe that the only difference is the bearing coating. Hopefully it's better than the green coating we had.

View attachment 2321

I have now ordered the other sizes (red and Blue) so that I can measure up and trial fit in each location to determine the right bearing for each loaction. I will also have to relive the main bearing caps to account for the anti rotation tabs.

Any way thanks for your input Gents.

Adrian
Click to expand...
Did you find out if it's possible to use their crankshaft?
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S
FYI - these folks have a youtube channel where they tackle rebuilding / repairing similar diesel engines in Land Rovers. LR TIME - YouTube
Their videos illustrate some of the complexity.
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B
I know and watch them. I own L494 RRS TDV6 which was overhauled already :LOL: I was just wondering if it's possible to get the improved crankshaft into our engines next time it happens. The engine is not that bad when it works to be honest. Ford plans to use it in new rangers and VW amaroks.
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