[DieselSupercrew]

Hello all, I've been researching the frame and axles on my diesel truck trying to understand payload on them.

It appears the diesels have the highest front GAWR at 3750 that you can get on this generation of f150. We have U code springs though at 553 lbs vs the HPPD Y code at 600+.

For rear axle I have GAWR at 3800. But it is the 9.75B axle that is rated at 4500 from the axle production line. I am curious if anyone with 20 inch wheels got the bump to 4050 that the max tow gets on the 3.5 with same axle and springs.

The differences between HD frames and HPP frames on 2019+ HDDP trucks seems mixed on the HPP markings still being used as I have seen reports of HDDP trucks saying HD frame on the sticker in other forums.

My truck has a GVWR of 7100. Does anyone have higher? The HDDP trucks this generation top out at GVWR of 7800 with a 3 leaf pack, 3.73 rear end, different axle shafts and a larger diff cover to hold more fluid.

What I have been trying to figure out is if the higher cost of the diesel is partly due to also getting the higher spec components from the HDDP trucks. I could see Ford not rating the higher payload ability if true due to either the engine not having capacity and/or not wanting a diesel 1/2 ton that could cut into F250 sales.

I think many people if choosing between a 250 and a f150 with high MPG, 11,000 towing and 2000 payload would choose the f150.

 

[Dunrollin]

I can't help too much as I have a 2018 with 20" wheels but a 3.31 rear. It shows a 7,050 payload package.

I have always believed Ford interpreted these numbers liberally and not totally from an engineering standpoint. For example back in the Crown Vic days I watched as they seemed to downgrade the towing capacities on purpose even though the components and frame would do much better, I assumed it was to push buyers to the pick up line. At one point they had the CV down to about 1,500 pound towing capacity, which made no sense at all.

 

[jmperlik]

@DieselSupercrew - first off since this is your first post, let me welcome you here to the forums and congrats your new truck!

I'm no towing expert as I only have a 7x16 dual-axle cargo trailer that I tow with infrequently.
It feels like Ford intentionally makes this topic confusing, but the engineer in me tells me it can't be....

I think the biggest misconception that F150 owners have is that Ford offers all of these different axle/rear diff options and that as an owner I can order any combination I want:
=> This simply isn't true
=> One needs only look at the Axle Availability chart in the 2019 Ford F150 Ordering Guide to confirm this:

While Ford may offer nine (9) different rear differentials (4 Non-Limited-Slip and 5 Electronic-Locking) you can clearly see from this chart that:

1. Only three (3) rear axle/differentials are available on 3.0L Diesel
   • X27 Non-Limited-Slip 3.31
   • XL3 Electronic-Locking 3.31
   • XL9 Electronic-Locking 3.55
2. Depending on models/trim levels/packages you order, you will get one (1) axle option with inability to alter/change:
   • I ordered the FX4 package on my 2018 Platinum = you get XL3 Electronic-Locking 3.31 automatically
   • F150 Limited trim (3.5L V6 EcoBoost High Output gas only) gets XL9 Electronic-Locking 3.55 = only option on most expensive F150 you can order!
   • Only way to get the XL4 Electronic-Locking 4.10 axle is to order a Raptor!
3. While Ford will advertise/market "Best-in-Class" towing, that marketing claim is explicitly for one specially engineered F150 package:
   => Max Trailer Tow Package (53C) is limited to 4x2 or 4x4 with 3.5L V6 EcoBoost engine to hit that "Best-in-Class" marketing claim

Digesting all of the above, I walk away with the following impressions/opinions:

• I know your original questions centered on GAWRs of the front & rear axles, this discussion quickly diverts to rear axle options of which we don't get many rear axles options
• I included the Axle Availability chart from the 2019 Ford F150 Ordering Guide because the 2018 Ordering Guide didn't even list the 3.0L V6 Diesel (was too late to make it)
• While one would think ordering a 3.0L V6 Diesel w/10-speed transmission would be an ideal towing platform, the axle options Ford offers preclude this from happening
• I wouldn't be towing anything above 10,000 lbs on this platform because Ford wants you to buy an F250
  • I base this assertion on the research on max tow capacity I did in Post #7 in this What is your payload capacity thread
  • I agree with your comment on the F150 Diesel cannibalizing F250 SuperDuty sales as I can guarantee you there were many meetings at Ford on this

 

[DieselSupercrew]

Thank you for the response and the order guide chart. I hadn't found that.

I have been cross referencing part numbers to compare and it really looks like Ford uses often minimal part differences across ratings and sometimes capacities based more on market targets not capabilities. Or a lower payload rating because lower rated wheels and tires vs the axle, frame, and springs.

Ford definitly makes it confusing. I cant prove it but it just feels like ford built a f150 diesel and then derated it to fit a niche and protect lineup. Which makes sense.

I feel like there easily could have been an HDDP option on this truck but I understand why they wouldn't offer it.

 

[jmperlik]

@DieselSupercrew - in researching the acronyms you've been dropping, I found this interesting read where I learned there are actually three (3) different F150 frame thicknesses:

Why Different 2018 F-150 Pickups Can Tow Different Amounts

HDPP (627) package (Heavy-Duty Payload Package) is only available with 3.5L V6 EcoBoost or 5.0L V8 (confirmed in notes of Axle Availability chart) = F150 Diesels excluded again!

I agree with your impressions and would not be surprised in the least if Ford derated the F150 Diesels to not cannibalize their F250 SuperDuty sales
=> Ford had a similar dilemma when picking the HP/torque rating for the 2.3L I4 used in the Ford Focus RS
=> Ford didn't want the engine in the Focus RS to out-rate/upstage the engine in their $$$-making Ford Mustang muscle car and possibly cannibalize Mustangs sales

 

[jmperlik]

@DieselSupercrew - also found more detailed Front and Rear Axle Specifications here:

and proof that there are three (3) different frame thicknesses based on wheelbase and HDPP option:

 

[DieselSupercrew]

Thank you for these charts!

If you look on the frame under passenger side door you will see your frame sticker. I attached mine. Interestingly these are upside down so work on frames must start with them flipped over.

Also the axle tag, mine lists 9.75 B which my research designates as the HD axle.

I am thinking a big part of the diesel upcharge is not just engine but also the heavier duty components that Ford doesn't neccesarily want to advertise.

A GAWR is the amount the axle system (axle, springs, wheels, tires) can hold static in place. So the Diesels I think have the rear GAWR derated by the wheels and springs.

I know you cant upgrade the yellow sticker. But I started my research trying to understand how comfortable I would feel stressing truck at max payload. I already planned airbags and or an add a leaf for better handling. My impression is that with this upgrade and possibly higher rated wheels and tires my truck may have quite a bit of margin even when I am at max payload.

Really across all platforms the engines, brakes, transmissions do not change.

 

[jmperlik]

@DieselSupercrew - so if I flip your sticker and read the line towards the bottom above the bar code, I see: 4x4 HD WB 156.8 C/C

which I translate to (if I cross-reference against the charts in Post #6)

4x4 = 4WD
HD = Heavy Duty Frame (9.06 x 3.58 x 0.1 thickness)
WB 156.8 = WheelBase 157" = w/6.5' bed
C/C = Crew/Cab?

so I am guessing you have a 4x4 SuperCrew cab w/6.5' bed and Heavy Duty frame? Do I win a prize?

Time to go snap a pic of my frame rail sticker...

 

[DieselSupercrew]

@DieselSupercrew - so if I flip your sticker and read the line towards the bottom above the bar code, I see: 4x4 HD WB 156.8 C/C

which I translate to (if I cross-reference against the charts in Post #6)

4x4 = 4WD
HD = Heavy Duty Frame (9.06 x 3.58 x 0.1 thickness)
WB 156.8 = SuperCrew w/6.5' bed
C/C = ???

so I am guessing you have a 4x4 SuperCrew cab w/6.5' bed and Heavy Duty frame? Do I win a prize?

Time to go snap a pic of my frame rail sticker...

Yea that's correct. I believe C/C stands for crew cab. In other frame links can have different bed cab configurations.

 

[Sgtwalleye]

Mine has the exact same stamp

 

[DieselSupercrew]

What are your GAWR, GVWR, and payload? Would be interesting to compare

I am front GAWR 3750
Rear GAWR 3800
GVWR 7100
Payload 1650

 

[Sgtwalleye]

Mine are front GAWR: 3900
Rear GAWR: 3800
GVWR: 7100

Not sure where to find Payload? The yellow sticker says combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1377

 

[DieselSupercrew]

Mine are front GAWR: 3900
Rear GAWR: 3800
GVWR: 7100

Not sure where to find Payload? The yellow sticker says combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1377

Yes. The yellow sticker is your payload.

 

[DieselSupercrew]

Yes, yellow sticker is your payload. It's your GVWR minus the measured weight of truck with full tank of gas and other fluids.

Your front GAWR is 3900? This is what I am finding. Similar trucks have different numbers but all seem to hit target ratings. Seems more to bracket the f150 and protect f250 sales and prob minimizing legal risk.

But I doubt there is any different components on your front axle then mine for a 150 pound difference in rating? Do you have 18 or 20 inch wheels.

 

[Sgtwalleye]

I have the 18” wheels.

 

[jmperlik]

Gear ratio seems to be 3.31 according to the L3 axle code on the door pillar

For anyone who is interested, here are the axle codes that @mbates6o used to determine axle ratios:

Thanks to new member @thegert87 for posting the F150 Towing Guide (where above table is from)
=> I used these guide(s) when typing up my post on What is your payload capacity thread
=> I forgot this table existed and that what type axle you have is on the door latch pillar sticker

 

[jmperlik]

Axle Ratio/Codes (highlighted in green) are also documented in your VIN-specific OASIS report: