[Orangeman]

Hey all, I have a 2017 Discovery 5 Diesel. As you all know, it uses the ubiquitous Bosch CP4 belt driven fuel pump that is on everything from 80hp eurobangers to 6.7L 1,000 bs/ft torque monsters. I purchased my car with a CPO warranty at 40k miles and PPI and immediately driving it home I could smell diesel a little too much... I finally got an appointment and they told me the fuel pump was leaking and needed total replacement. Some PPI. I was quoted a NC ($7,300) job in Albany New York for the replacement under CPO. Sorry, but there is virtually no support on this issue on the JLR side.

As far as I can tell the only real differences with the ford is the fords have a stronger crankshaft, however the LRs are not having the oil pressure issues and the filter housing problem that I hear from the Ford guys, so maybe there are more differences.

Anyways, I am wondering if you guys are hearing about any issues with fuel pumps leaking? Search does not turn up anything and also doesn't turn up anything on the LR forums, at least in the USA. This issue has actually been a disaster for me as there was a 6 week wait to get a new pump supposedly due to supply chain logistic problems. If this is looking like a widespread issue, I will sell the truck before the warranty is up. $7k for a fuel pump is beyond insane.

I love the engine for the same reasons you guys do, I legitimately get 30 mpg highway at 72mph, it tows my boat like nothing is there, and I've never averaged less than 23.5 mpg on a tank. I do really wish we had gotten the 10 spd, and the DEF usesage seems a bit to high to me but that's not too big of a deal I suppose.

Pic for attention:
1" rod lift
20" RR Wheels with Studded Nokians
Frontrunner slimline 2 rack
All black r-dynamic facelift grilles and trim
Sliders and winch waiting.... 33s in the spring time

Any info is much appreciated. Thanks

 

[Orangeman]

PS, the engine covers are directly interchangeable, so if anyone wants to have some fun and really surprise their friends when they open the hood and see Land Rover, let me know!

 

[jmperlik]

@Orangeman - Yikes! That's a shot to the nuts!

First off, let me be the first to welcome you here to our F150 Diesel forums!

We have few a JLR Discovery owners in our ranks who have come here looking for similarities, and we even have one owner (@dhuyck) who has both a Discovery? and an F150 Diesel with the "same" engine. We also have a engine rebuilder from Great Britain (@Breg90) who specializes in JLR engine rebuilds who may be able to offer more help.

Questions for you:

• If you noticed it "immediately after driving home", was there any escape clause to get out of the deal within a certain time frame?
• So with a CPO (Certified Pre-Owned) warranty, they still want $7300 to fix this?!?
  • Doesn't sound like it is covered at-all nor pro-rated with the CPO warranty?
  • Price for Fuel injection pump on our trucks: <$1000 => Fuel Injection Pump | FordUS
  • What exactly does your CPO cover if it doesn't cover engine parts?
• Did they say what the cause of the failure was?
  • Pretty low mileage for failure given the different industry applications this pump is used
  • ULSD is known to have lower lubricity (due to the removal of the sulphur!)
    • Hoping the Stanadyne Lubricity formula I run every tankful combats this
• Can the existing CP4 pump be rebuilt by an injection pump rebuilder?
  • Gotta believe Diesel rebuild shops know how to rebuild these pumps by now
  • Pump rebuild has to be significantly less than $7300 price tag you've been quoted
• Assuming price quote from the local JLR dealer for: removal + installation of new pump?
  • Do you have a breakdown of parts vs labor?
• Can I ask where in Albany you got the quote?
  • I'm 70 miles south of you now but spent 4 years in the Capital District area during college
  • I've ordered Denso parts for the tiny pumps in my diesel tractors from D&W Diesel
• May we ask what you paid for the vehicle?
  • I know used car prices are up 30-40% due to new car shortages
  • Add in CPO (Certified Pre-Owned) warranty + PPI (Payment Protection Insurance?) and this sounds like used car salesman's wet dream

No reports of the Bosch CP4 pumps being replaced here (that I remember) and we have lots of owners who are well above 40K miles -- even I am coming up on 40K in the next few months.

Nice looking vehicle = too bad you are being taken advantage of....

 

[Dunrollin]

Wow! I agree with jmperlik, that is pretty stiff. How many miles on your truck, and any idea why the pump is failing? I know it is leaking but do they think the previous owner did anything wrong?

This Ford dealer seems to have the pumps in stock: 2018-2020 Ford F-150 OEM Injection Pump JL3Z-9A543-A | OEM Ford Parts at a price of $835. I bet a big part of the problem is access to the pump as it is up close to the firewall, perhaps expensive labor charges. On the F150 some tasks require removal of the cab.

Best of luck and keep us informed. Oh and yes, I love the concept of the engine cover.

 

[beaker]

The fuel pump itself is pretty inexpensive; maybe $800 - $1500 depending on the vehicle. I think it's the labor that makes this job so expensive. There is a guy on youtube who replaced a CR pump on an LR3 with the Lion engine family and looked like it took him maybe 14 hours while doing things that he claims "Land Rover says your cannot do this"; obviously this is a loose translation to an LR5 with a CP4, but it provides a decent idea of the scope of work here. If that pump grenaded, I would expect it to run double the $7300.

Regarding the OP's original question, I've never heard of a CP4 leaking. I'm sure you can find an example out there, but it is much more common for them to pack-up entirely, most commonly due to mis-fuelling.

 

[PeteK]

I found from owning a Porsche Cayenne that the prices for parts on Land Rovers are even more absurd than for Porsches. Sticking a Land Rover label on an otherwise interchangeable Bosch part generally triples the price at the JLR dealer.

 

[beaker]

I found from owning a Porsche Cayenne that the prices for parts on Land Rovers are even more absurd than for Porsches. Sticking a Land Rover label on an otherwise interchangeable Bosch part generally triples the price at the JLR dealer.

Agree, always helps to shop around. In the case of the Disocovery, MSRP for the CP4 is $2213, versus $1863 for a Cayenne Diesel, $1020 for a Touareg using the identical powerplant, and $993 for an F-150. Online dealers sell for substantially less, but owners who have to take a vehicle to a dealer don't have that option. Even at $2200 + perhaps $500 for TTY bolts, new gaskets, etc.... it still leaves a huge proportion of the cost as labor.

These are flat rates; however, and if a mechanic can complete a 10-hour book job in 4 hours, you are still paying the 10-hour book rate. Unfortunately, there is rarely accountability for skipping/sloppy steps (leaving out brackets, not properly torquing bolts, not sealing wiring repairs, etc, etc,) that show up months down the road... ask me how I know.

 

[dhuyck]

Hey all, I have a 2017 Discovery 5 Diesel. As you all know, it uses the ubiquitous Bosch CP4 belt driven fuel pump that is on everything from 80hp eurobangers to 6.7L 1,000 bs/ft torque monsters. I purchased my car with a CPO warranty at 40k miles and PPI and immediately driving it home I could smell diesel a little too much... I finally got an appointment and they told me the fuel pump was leaking and needed total replacement. Some PPI. I was quoted a NC ($7,300) job in Albany New York for the replacement under CPO. Sorry, but there is virtually no support on this issue on the JLR side.

As far as I can tell the only real differences with the ford is the fords have a stronger crankshaft, however the LRs are not having the oil pressure issues and the filter housing problem that I hear from the Ford guys, so maybe there are more differences.

Anyways, I am wondering if you guys are hearing about any issues with fuel pumps leaking? Search does not turn up anything and also doesn't turn up anything on the LR forums, at least in the USA. This issue has actually been a disaster for me as there was a 6 week wait to get a new pump supposedly due to supply chain logistic problems. If this is looking like a widespread issue, I will sell the truck before the warranty is up. $7k for a fuel pump is beyond insane.

I love the engine for the same reasons you guys do, I legitimately get 30 mpg highway at 72mph, it tows my boat like nothing is there, and I've never averaged less than 23.5 mpg on a tank. I do really wish we had gotten the 10 spd, and the DEF usesage seems a bit to high to me but that's not too big of a deal I suppose.

Pic for attention:
1" rod lift
20" RR Wheels with Studded Nokians
Frontrunner slimline 2 rack
All black r-dynamic facelift grilles and trim
Sliders and winch waiting.... 33s in the spring time

View attachment 2557

Any info is much appreciated. Thanks

Orangeman, nice looking rig. My wife absolutely loves her '19 Disco.

That sucks that the CPO is not covering the replacement - especially for $7K! I am sure you have thought of this, but have you looked at re-torquing all the fuel rail connections. Maybe there was a service in the past that was not completed properly. Just a thought and you may get lucky.

There is a video of a full 3.0L Lion rebuild located here: Engine Rebuild Video | Diesel F150 Forum The video showing the installation of the fuel pump is Part 9 starting around the 12:30 mark.

The Land Rover Discovery workshop manual I have says that there are a few special tools needed to change the HP Fuel Pump, including:
303-114/2 Remover, Camshaft Rear Pulley Bolt
310-138A Holding Tool, Fuel Pump Pulley
310-139A Holding Tool, Fuel Pump Pulley
JLR-303-1523 Remover/Installer, Camshaft Rear Pulley

Both manuals also say to change these items when changing a HP Fuel Pump to avoid damaging the injectors.

• Both fuel rails
• The fuel rail balance pipe
• The fuel injector high pressure pipe(s).

The instructions for the LR are not the best (the Ford manual does a better job), but it looks like it would be a VERY tight fit to get in there and get to all the items necessary to do the change. If you have ever changed the fuel filter in your Disco you will know how tight it is on the backside of the motor.

I also included the information I have for the F-150 version of the motor. It also calls for special tools but having changed the fuel filter on top of the motor I know there is a bit more working room.

From a quick glance the pumps appear the same (if you have the JLR part number I am sure google can help compare). From the manuals and what folks are quoting for the cost of the pump itself, I would bet the bulk of the cost is labor. If so, I am not sure I would risk a few thousand-dollar engine rebuild to save a couple hundred bucks on parts today.

That all being said, I realized you may be looking for a second opinion. Here is a post from the LR threads that I have kept bookmarked. I cannot speak to any of these shops, but it may be worth a shot giving a couple a call to talk to them about the repair: Forum Member Recommended Land Rover Repair Shops by State. | Land Rover and Range Rover Forum (landroversonly.com)

 

[jmperlik]

@dhuyck - thanks for chiming in = I knew you'd have some valuable information to contribute....

 

[dhuyck]

Did some quick digging. This appears to be the LR part number for the Injector Pump: LR079958 (2016-2020 Land Rover Injection Pump LR079958 | Land Rover Darien Parts). This is dealer price, and you may be able to get it a bit cheaper - in fact I did a quick google of the part number and the price varies between dealers as much as $250. It does show that fuel rails are also generally purchased at the same time and those appear to run over $550.

All JLR appear to use the same pump (as you had mentioned).

 

[Dunrollin]

Great information! Since the vehicle has 40,000 miles and is a 2017 the rear timing belt should be replaced as well to reset the 150,000 miles schedule. This is a big job for sure.

I am watching a video on rear belt replacement on a Discovery 3. He does i with the engine in the car and he has convinced me it would be difficult if not impossible to do this and replace the pump with the body in place. This guy is good!

Not sure how it is done on a Discovery 5 or an F150 but it looks like our trucks were designed for cab removal for these tasks.

 

[dhuyck]

Great information! Since the vehicle has 40,000 miles and is a 2017 the rear timing belt should be replaced as well to reset the 150,000 miles schedule. This is a big job for sure.

I am watching a video on rear belt replacement on a Discovery 3. He does i with the engine in the car and he has convinced me it would be difficult if not impossible to do this and replace the pump with the body in place. This guy is good!

Not sure how it is done on a Discovery 5 or an F150 but it looks like our trucks were designed for cab removal for these tasks.

Like you mentioned that is the Disco3 and it had a much larger engine bay. Impressive they were able to do that change without ripping a wire out somewhere! The Discovery 5 - which is just called the Discovery here in the U.S. is much more compact, with the engine moved further back into the engine bay.

Here is a video of how to change the lone fuel filter (definitely do this yourself, not worth the high dealership costs). Notice the engine bay at around the 11:10 mark. The fuel pump is **** near up under the windshield.

And yes, I would definitely replace the Fuel Injector Timing Belt at the same time as you are replacing the pump.

 

[Dunrollin]

I am thinking most of this work (and replacing the rear accessory drive belt that runs the pump) is done from the bottom on a lift as I was reading Alldata on this procedure and they state you remove the front drive shaft and the exhaust crossover pipe. Below is a photo of parts and labor on the pump.