Concerns about long-term ownership

7882 Views 17 Replies 13 Participants Last post by jmperlik, May 7, 2020

snowshew

Discussion Starter · Apr 13, 2019

Hello,

I am very interested in owning a 3.0l F-150 but am very fearful of having a unique powerplant, especially one that is manufactured in a shared facility (land rover diesels). I have read that JLR is dropping orders for V6 diesels from the Dagenham plant, perhaps building them in another facility/their own, whatever. Does anyone else have concerns about finding parts support 15 years on if this engine is only produced for as long as the Ecodiesel, for example? What is more likely, a Gen 2 3.0 in a couple years or it beind discontinued? I apologize in advance for being a downer....

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Old Ray

· #2 · Apr 13, 2019

Yes, it is an unique engine with all the associated problems.
But, what are the real chances of you keeping the truck for 15 years? If you do and they run out of parts then send it to Cuba and they will put a tractor engine in it.
Ford would supply engine parts of at least the length of the engine warranty, most likely as long as you are going to keep it.
A lot of things in life, mostly unexpected, can happen in 15 years, but if this is causing you concern, for peace of mind, you might want to look at other models that appear better.
This would give you more time to worry about world peace and other important things. :wink2:l

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Laytunes

· #3 · Apr 13, 2019

I wouldn't worry too much about this. Ford generally supplies parts for engines for at least 15 years, beyond that if people are still driving them, aftermarket will supply. I know that only 5% of these trucks have this engine, but that still 45,000 or so trucks per year sold so there's still a fairly large market. Once the engine proves reliable, which I think it will, sales will likely pick up; especially with fleets given the excellent fuel economy. Parts of this engine have also been produced for over a decade so it's not new, and things like the turbos, bosch injection systems, etc are third party produced and used in other applications, so they should still be available regardless of what ford does with this engine. For me it's nice to have a unique engine, keeps things interesting. With GM and Dodge putting diesels back in their trucks, I doubt ford will drop it. This is a solid platform, so they can likely build up the HP and Torques from here to compete with the new GM 3.0 in a couple years... i.e. Gen 2.

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Knifeman

· #4 · Apr 14, 2019

No concerns whatsoever. #1 truck builder in the USA. Buy one you will never look back. Over the last 43 years of have owned 12 F150’s my 2011 ecboost blew up with 45 thousand miles on it. Ford put a new engine in it for no cost. Didn’t stop me from buying a 2015 but did go with the 5.0. The 3.0 is impressive there is always miner issues with a new engine.

snowshew

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 14, 2019

I'd love to believe that I would never have to look back, but it seems that there are a lot of very unhappy people with their transmission or engine, (even for first year products, the 10R80, the 5.0 have gotten a lot of negative attention). I am actually inclined to have faith in the 3.0 more than the 5.0 as it has not (to my knowledge) adopted any new construction techniques (spray in cylinder liners, for example) and I would like to believe that being the engine existed in a luxury auto there would be less chance of shortcuts being taken (outsourcing casting/milling, etc.) I live in Alaska and there are very few Ford dealers/repair shops and my experience with the local dealer has been appalling. Dealing with repeated repairs or specialty work is likely to be very frustrating. Glad to hear some optimism!

As for owning a unique engine, it might be fun. I loved my 82 Mercedes 300TD wagon and want to drive an oil burner again without going to a 3/4 ton. If I like a 3.0 F150 I will very likely have it for 15 years; my wife and I have driven each of our last four cars for more than 10 years.

Thanks for the viewpoints!

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hydrex

· #6 · Apr 14, 2019

I'd expect in 15 years, there will be plenty of used junkyard 3L's around. People are still going to have wrecks. I figure if you are so worried about a motor failing, should probably drive a Toyota. I actually had a new Tacoma with a bad motor, so scratch that.... I drive a Ram Ecodiesel, it's been great, but if it gives me grief, I'll drive something else. Probably a F150!

yokev

· #7 · Apr 19, 2019

Well, federal law requires manufacturers to supply spare parts for 10 years after the last year they manufactured a specific vehicle.
When will Ford stop producing this engine? Who knows, but from that point on, you still have at LEAST 10 years

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yokev

· #8 · Apr 19, 2019

snowshew said:
I am actually inclined to have faith in the 3.0 more than the 5.0 as it has not (to my knowledge) adopted any new construction techniques (spray in cylinder liners, for example) and I would like to believe that being the engine existed in a luxury auto there would be less chance of shortcuts being taken (outsourcing casting/milling, etc.)

And you gotta remember, a lot of 5L guys are running aftermarket tunes(made by anybody and everybody) that are written by people who are only concerned with producing the most power- because that's what sells- and installing things like superchargers that are straining these motors beyond their limits.
And when they pop, the first thing these people do is write about it on the internet-and blame Ford

, which makes it seem like there's more problems with 'em than there actually are, and it's a design problem-which it isn't.

Stonedragon2002

· #9 · Apr 21, 2019

No not concerned. Ford has produced similarly sized Diesel engines in its ranger trucks in the UK ford years already that they will continuing to be supporting and make parts for.

jamanrr

· #10 · Apr 22, 2019

This is basically the same diesel found in Jaguars and range rovers for the past 20 years, this motor will outlast the 2.7 and 3.5 eco boosts by far.

mxt sniper

· #11 · Apr 24, 2019

The only thing I would be concerned about long term ownership would be the particulate burner. I think this is a very expensive item to replace. What is its useful life? 150K?

Laytunes

· #12 · Apr 25, 2019

mxt sniper said:
The only thing I would be concerned about long term ownership would be the particulate burner. I think this is a very expensive item to replace. What is its useful life? 150K?

You shouldn't have to replace this unless it gets damaged somehow. They can be cleaned out and restored, there are lots of companies that do this, just did a quick search in my area and found a couple companies.

wreedsvt

· #13 · Apr 25, 2019 (Edited)

Laytunes said:
You shouldn't have to replace this unless it gets damaged somehow. They can be cleaned out and restored, there are lots of companies that do this, just did a quick search in my area and found a couple companies.

Or delete it all and never have to worry about it........

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kdjasper

· #14 · Apr 25, 2019

From the 2018 F150 online Owners Manual...

"Diesel Particulate Filter

Over time, a slight amount of ash builds up in the diesel particulate filter, which is not removed during the regeneration process. The filter may need to be replaced with a new or remanufactured part at approximately 250000 mi (400,000 km). Actual mileage varies depending on engine and vehicle operating conditions.

In this case, the engine control system sets a service light (wrench icon) to inform you to bring your vehicle to the dealer for service. If there are any issues with the oxidation catalyst or particulate filter system, a service light (wrench or engine icon) sets by the engine control system to inform you to bring your vehicle into a dealer for service."

PercheNoir

· #15 · May 6, 2020

I apologize for the resurrection but as I read this string I noticed a concern missing. All the attention seemed to be on the DPF, and this is certainly an area worth watching. But what I see missing is the EGR valve/cooler that lives upstream of the DPF, which puts it at a bit of a disadvantage. It, as well as the turbo, doesn't see any DEF during the re-gen process and has to be satisfied with just the thermal increases from the afterburn of an active re-gen or the heat from a good hard run. Considering that this is still a Diesel engine, albeit a better tuned, cleaner running Diesel engine, it still creates soot in the exhaust. That soot is likely to adhere to any surface that is cooler than the gas passing over it. As the EGR cooler has the potential of seeing an 800+ degree temp swing from one end to the other and is subject to some of the higher temperatures in the exhaust system, would it be wise to have them remove and inspect/clean this unit when they do the timing and fuel pump belts? Additional consideration is that the EGR cooler is the interface between two major systems on the truck. Thoughts?

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jmperlik

· #16 · May 7, 2020

@PercheNoir - Agreed -- worst yet, what if there is a design flaw in the EGR cooler that allows hot exhaust gases to mix with super-heated anti-freeze causing fires?

The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) cooler on your truck [1] may be susceptible to thermal fatigue. Thermal fatigue may cause the cooler to crack internally over time. An EGR cooler with an internal crack will introduce pre-heated, vaporized coolant to the EGR system while the engine is running. In certain circumstances, this mixture interacts with other hydrocarbons and air in the system, potentially resulting in combustion within the intake manifold, which may lead to a vehicle fire. A vehicle fire may increase the risk of injury to occupants and persons outside of the vehicle, as well as property damage.

Above is from the current NHTSA recall for 2013-2019 Dudge EcoDeisel 3.0L trucks.... Google "EcoDiesel Fire" for how serious and scary a problem this is....

This is why I would like to see Ford implement/switch to a low-pressure EGR design that introduces exhaust gases from after the DPF in the future.

Europe has been running small diesels for years compared to here. Google "HHO gas cleaning machines" or "Sea Foam" for popular but questionable engine cleaning solutions.

PercheNoir

· #17 · May 7, 2020

jmperlik said:
@PercheNoir - Agreed -- worst yet, what is there is a design flaw in the EGR cooler that allows hot exhaust gases to mix with super-heated anti-freeze causing fires?

Above is from the current NHTSA recall for 2013-2019 Dudge EcoDeisel 3.0L tracks.... Google "EcoDiesel Fire" for how serious and scary a problem this is....

This is why I would like to see Ford implement/switch to a low-pressure EGR design that introduces exhaust gases for after the DPF in he future.

Europe has been running small diesels for years compared to here. Google "HHO gas cleaning machines" or "Sea Foam" for popular but questionable cleaning solutions.

I have to admit that while extended damage to the vehicle was definitely on the radar, an actual fire in a manor you illustrate was not. I suppose all we can do is watch, wait and pray that it does not come to fruition in this truck.

As I have had the opportunity to travel to Europe several times, I have had the pleasure of riding in different cars with Diesel engines. I remember riding in a mid 2000's Chrysler minivan with a diesel four cylinder. The owner was not shy about expounding his displeasure with the vehicle. In his mind, the 200,000 plus mile van had been to the shop too many times for his liking. I was just enjoying the opportunity to ride in a European version of a largely American vehicle with a Diesel engine.

This is my first diesel truck with an EGR. My previous experience was with gas vehicles with EGR's and that they ALWAYS clogged up with exhaust ****. But they never caused an engine bay fire that I knew of........

jmperlik

· #18 · May 7, 2020

I have to admit that while extended damage to the vehicle was definitely on the radar, an actual fire in a manor you illustrate was not. I suppose all we can do is watch, wait and pray that it does not come to fruition in this truck.

Agreed = I don't wish this on any Dodge and/or Ford owner

This is my first diesel truck with an EGR. My previous experience was with gas vehicles with EGR's and that they ALWAYS clogged up with exhaust ****. But they never caused an engine bay fire that I knew of........

As an engineer-by-degree, I like to understand how things work and even more so, I like understanding why things go wrong thru causal fault analysis. I have spent a few weekends reading thru the hundreds of posts on the EcoDiesel forums and reached my own conclusion of what goes wrong prior to an EcoDiesel explosion/fire:

EGR Bypass cooler develops microscopic cracks due to heat cycling (as described in recall above)
=> Loss of coolant (known symptom cooler is bad) due to anti-freeze escaping thru these microscopic cracks
Hot coolant (flowing thru EGR cooler) is mixed w/very hot exhaust gases being recirculated back into intake
=> EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation
=> Anti-freeze (Ethylene Glycol) is flammable at a high enough temperature
Super-charged mixture of Exhaust + Coolant gases melt/burn a hole thru the PLASTIC intake manifold
Hole in PLASTIC intake manifold acts like a blow torch igniting anything flammable in the engine compartment
=> Electrical wiring harnesses
=> Rubber hoses
=> Sound-dampening plastic Insulation under hood
=> Exhaust goop in any engine passages where EGR gases pass thru

FCA (Fiat Chrysler America) knows what is happening but refuses to admit any wrong-doing due to liability issues, which in my opinion is unethical and criminal. They cut-some-corners (thickness of internal tubing in EGR cooler and using thermoplastic instead of aluminum for the intake manifold) to save $$$, as what I describe above can't be thought of anything but a ticking time-bomb under the hood of an EcoDiesel…

Pretty scary stuff, especially if someone is traveling with wife and kids. Now I understand why @justlucky sold his EcoDiesel as soon as he saw any indication of coolant loss = once you start losing coolant, the time-bomb has started ticking...

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