[Laytunes]

So I noticed recently that my regens have pretty much stopped being triggered by soot loading, and are happening based on mileage only. I'm now seeing over 500km per regen as opposed to the historical normal of between 200 and 300 km when driving in the city.

Recently we went through an extreme cold stint, where I would expect that regen frequency would go up, as I was doing LOTS of idling and cold starts. So this has me concerned that the dpf may be cracked. There's a small amount of soot in the tail pipe, not enough to really blacken my finger, but it's there.

My estimated distance on DEF has also gone from 10,000km or so, to 34k which seems very odd. I also brought up some PIDs on forscan, and the DPF delta pressure always reads 0.0, even on the highway, but I'm not sure if that's normal as this is the first time I've looked at it. The only thing that has really changed is on the last two fill ups I've been using the hot shots winter treat.

What do y'all think? Do I have a problem here? No codes or anything are showing.

 

[jmperlik]

Hmm, something definitely doesn't sound right here, and I think you have enough data points to prove it!

Just got back for a "blow out" run with my truck tonight and I can confirm that I have a non-zero DPF delta pressure, as that is one pf the PIDs I have up on my new Edge Insight CTS3.

I think you have a problem but not exactly sure what it is though and if it's not throwing any codes, then I'm not sure that the Ford service technicians will know what to do either. We aren't supposed to see the PIDs you are monitoring, so imagine if you weren't FORScan-enabled....

Emissions system is definitely covered (8 yr/80K miles) by manufacturer warranty, so Ford should fix it if they can diagnose what the problem is, though I'm not sure what the problem could be, or what the positive/negative outcome would be if you don't address it?

If I were in your shoes, I'd bring it in for service, explaining to the Service Manager what you are seeing, and maybe have them put it up on the lift for a visual inspection of the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)?

Sorry for the weak response, but I do agree with you that this isn't normal and indicative that your emissions system is not "working as designed..."

Please keep us informed here with what you do and what they might find!

 

[Laytunes]

@jmperlik Thanks, I just watched it go through a regen, the dash DPF% went from 85% down to zero, however the DPF soot % in forscan only went down to 20%, and the regen stayed active for a few minutes beyond when the dash said it was done. Definitely does not seem typical of what I was experiencing before this cold snap.

The regen was definitely triggered when the PDM.DPF_REGEN_PCT (Normalized Trigger for DPF regeneration) hit 100%, which was at 483 km which is exactly 300 mi. This has been the case for the last two regens, in which I have been driving shorter trips in the city at -30C. So to me it doesn't make sense that given those driving conditions. The PID that I was watching was PCM.DPF_DP (Diesel particulate filter Delta pressure), and it has read nothing but zero today. I also watched PCM.EBP (Exhaust pressure sensor 1), which i assume would be exhaust back pressure, and this fluctuated from between 100 kpa and 250 kpa (14-36 psi) on my loop, so maybe the DPF is fine, and the pressure differential sensor is pooched? who knows with no code.

I watch my regens religiously, so I usually have a sense when something is off, but you're right, without a code I'm not sure ford would even look into it. I might monitor for another cycle or two to see what happens in the warmer weather. I agree the laymen would never be the wiser to this, but i'm within about 4000 km of my bumper to bumper warranty so hopefully the issue materializes quick.

Question though, when you wipe your finger on the inside of your exhaust is it 100% clean, or is there some color there? because if other's are clean, that may be something I can use to get it looked at more seriously.

 

[hydrex]

Laytunes, very cold weather will effect regens. The colder it is, the longer my Ram takes to finish one. Suspect Ford is no different. Also in summer, at least for me, I get up to 775 miles between regens, now between 550 and 625 miles. First, get a bottle of "Hot Shot's Extreme", if you can start a regen by yourself, wait until you get to 1/2 tank, dump in half the bottle of Extreme and drive her hard. DPF's rarely crack.

 

[Laytunes]

Laytunes, very cold weather will effect regens. The colder it is, the longer my Ram takes to finish one. Suspect Ford is no different. Also in summer, at least for me, I get up to 775 miles between regens, now between 550 and 625 miles. First, get a bottle of "Hot Shot's Extreme", if you can start a regen by yourself, wait until you get to 1/2 tank, dump in half the bottle of Extreme and drive her hard. DPF's rarely crack.

These trucks will trigger a regen every 300 miles regardless of DPF status, when driving in the city, mine would typically regen every 150 mi or so, and now since we had a stint of -30, it will only regen every 300 as triggered by the computer no matter how I drive it. It's not an issue in the length of time to complete a regen, but the length of time between them all of a sudden changed from the norm. When I bring up the DPF differential pressure PID, it always reads zero, which seems odd to me as that is what should be telling the computer how full the DPF is. If the sensor is pooched, then i'm potentially filling up the DPF and running it over capacity, although I would like to think there's some kind of fail safe there (EBP sensor likely). So that leads me to believe that the DPF may be fractured or separated internally.

This quote is from the coffee table book "The substrate filter is held in the metal shell by a ceramic fiber support system. The support system makes up the size differences that occur due to thermal expansion and maintains a uniform holding force on the substrate filter.", I'm thinking with the temperatures we've seen, it would be possible to thermally shock this (-30C to 500C), and thus the exhaust may just be passing around the outside of the substrate. Who knows, just a theory. But honestly, the truck feels like it has more power and is un-restricted. so it may not be a bad thing haha. I just did a 300 km trip today and she ran beautifully. This may all just be me being paranoid/over thinking, I know that a normal driver would be none the wiser to it, as the truck isn't displaying any codes or warnings.

 

[Dunrollin]

This might be a case for a static driveway regen using the Forscan app. I have seen photos of this engine with no dpf (fully deleted) and the exhaust quickly gets blackened, maybe 1,000 miles would show up on your finger easily.

 

[GreenDiesel]

In the deep cold the DEF system tends to freeze and you end up using less DEF during the coldest months for system protection. Ford has different engine modes based on conditions, some of those modes run with less egr or no egr. This can lengthen DPF regen interval. If you are seeing soot in the tailpipe, this is not good, a white rag is a good test. Ford diagnostics will set a P2002 DPF efficiency code if there is a cracked DPF. However, Ford turns off this diagnostic below -10 C and it requires 4 drive cycles of setting the code before it flags a CEL.

 

[Laytunes]

In the deep cold the DEF system tends to freeze and you end up using less DEF during the coldest months for system protection. Ford has different engine modes based on conditions, some of those modes run with less egr or no egr. This can lengthen DPF regen interval. If you are seeing soot in the tailpipe, this is not good, a white rag is a good test. Ford diagnostics will set a P2002 DPF efficiency code if there is a cracked DPF. However, Ford turns off this diagnostic below -10 C and it requires 4 drive cycles of setting the code before it flags a CEL.

Thanks GDE! My shop had their lead diesel tech on it yesterday to check out all the PID's, and he also did an extended road test on it. He came back and said that all parameters were well within spec and expected values for the truck, and had zero concerns. What you say regarding the diagnostics and driving modes for cold weather makes a ton of sense, and is likely all I was experiencing, it was a departure from the norm however which is why I started looking into it more. The "soot" i saw in the pipe may have just been dirt, after i cleaned it out, there really hasn't been anything new showing up. I'm glad to hear there's a code that will show up if this were the case.

Thanks appreciate the insight, learned something new about the truck this week.