Dealership Nightmare

2091 Views 24 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Reinharm, May 1, 2022

RJDodge

Discussion Starter · Apr 19, 2022

Well took my F-150 in for its first oil change since purchasing it back in November. Received a text an hour and a half later saying no issues and it’s ready for pickup. Came in, paid, and went to the valet to have it brought out. Was told it was still being serviced, so I asked how much longer to expect since my wife had already driven away. After a couple minutes the service advisor came out to tell me they couldn’t get it to start. They said it would crank, but wasn’t starting. After a couple hours, they shuttled me over to get a rental car.

Today I received a call that apparently the service technician accidentally put DEF into the fuel tank. Allegedly he caught his mistake, but still managed to put enough DEF in it to cause it not to start (with a full tank of diesel). They are now flushing it and are going to see if it will start. If it doesn’t, they plan to replace the fuel system.

From what I’ve read on my own, it sounds like this is practically death of the truck due to corrosion and crystallization of the Urea in the DEF. I’m pretty frustrated and bummed. I love this truck and planned to drive it till it died, but apparently that’s only going to be 5 months. I’m primarily frustrated because it wasn’t until today that they finally told me what happened when it sounds like they knew the entire time. Additionally, the technician didn’t acknowledge adding DEF to the fuel tank anywhere in the service report.

Now I’m just waiting for them to receive the parts to flush it and see what results that yields, but I’m not optimistic. Guess we’ll see what happens.

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Dunrollin

· #2 · Apr 20, 2022

That is a nightmare indeed. Hopefully the dealership won't try any shortcuts as you will need a complete fuel system. This paragraph is from Texas Diesel Service:

I started and ran my truck for a good period of time (more than 1 minute of driving or idling) with DEF fluid in the tank. In this case, it is very likely you’re going to have DEF contamination in the fuel system. Although your truck may still be running it won’t last long. At some point, the DEF fluid will begin to crystalize and create clumps in your lines, injectors, CP4 pump, Fuel filters ETC. In this case, you can try replacing just what Is broken but it isn’t going to fix your problem in the long run. By not replacing the entire fuel system at the same time you’re going to cause yourself more downtime, money, and headache. At Texas Diesel, we refuse to replace individual fuel system components which have been contaminated by DEF, water, or other debris. The only way to fix this problem effectively is by replacing the entire system at once.

If the technician had not started the truck the fix is pretty simple, drop the tank, clean out the def and replace the pump/filter unit. Sounds like a big problem was made bigger. Keep us informed of your progress and I am hoping for the best for you.

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hydrex

· #3 · Apr 20, 2022

That's not a technician, sounds like they let the high school kid that washes the cars do the service with no training .

Reactions: 3

RJDodge

Discussion Starter · #4 · Apr 20, 2022

Dunrollin said:
That is a nightmare indeed. Hopefully the dealership won't try any shortcuts as you will need a complete fuel system. This paragraph is from Texas Diesel Service:

I started and ran my truck for a good period of time (more than 1 minute of driving or idling) with DEF fluid in the tank. In this case, it is very likely you’re going to have DEF contamination in the fuel system. Although your truck may still be running it won’t last long. At some point, the DEF fluid will begin to crystalize and create clumps in your lines, injectors, CP4 pump, Fuel filters ETC. In this case, you can try replacing just what Is broken but it isn’t going to fix your problem in the long run. By not replacing the entire fuel system at the same time you’re going to cause yourself more downtime, money, and headache. At Texas Diesel, we refuse to replace individual fuel system components which have been contaminated by DEF, water, or other debris. The only way to fix this problem effectively is by replacing the entire system at once.

If the technician had not started the truck the fix is pretty simple, drop the tank, clean out the def and replace the pump/filter unit. Sounds like a big problem was made bigger. Keep us informed of your progress and I am hoping for the best for you.

I read a similar article. That’s my fear. I feel that them trying to flush it is the first sign of a shortcut. Even if it does start, I suspect I’m going to find myself stranded somewhere, potentially with my wife and daughter. Hopefully won’t be too much resistance to just replacing the entire system. Really don’t want to have to take and legal recourse. Thanks, I’ll keep everyone posted.

RJDodge

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 20, 2022

hydrex said:
That's not a technician, sounds like they let the high school kid that washes the cars do the service with no training .

Yeah that’s how I felt when they told me. Pretty sure every DEF container says at least 5 times not to put it in the fuel tank. I understand people make mistakes and stuff happens, but now I have to hope the dealership will do the right thing and fix it properly from the start. Really don’t want to be driving a rental sporadically over the next year because my truck is constantly going back into the dealer.

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PeteK

· #6 · Apr 20, 2022

Make **** sure the DEF contamination is documented on your repair order AND in OASIS. If there’s a future problem related to the fuel system, you can point back to that incident as the cause.

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RJDodge

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 20, 2022

PeteK said:
Make **** sure the DEF contamination is documented on your repair order AND in OASIS. If there’s a future problem related to the fuel system, you can point back to that incident as the cause.

When I talked to the service manager I told him I need a report at the end detailing what happened and what all is done to correct it, and he said he planned on it. I assume OASIS is some sort of deficiency reporting program? Honestly, I’m kind of skeptical about the detail they’ll put into explaining the fix. The fact that the tech planned to not even mention putting the DEF in the tank seems shady. And the manager even said that if the tech doesn’t think it’ll be an issue he’s not expected to record it in the service report. I think to some extent I’m lucky that the truck didn’t start at the dealership. Had I been driving home and then the engine cut out, they very easily could have been trying to argue their responsibility.

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jmperlik

· #8 · Apr 20, 2022

OASIS is Ford's worldwide internal VIN database that tracks among other things any recalls, Field Service Actions (FSA), Customer Service Programs (CSP) and warranty work performed for any vehicle manufactured by Ford = it's the bible that moves with the vehicle regarding its service history; e.g. the 18E02 and 20E04 recalls to replace the defective EGR By-Pass valve are documented within OASIS for my truck. I agree with @PeteK to ensure everything gets into the RO and into OASIS as protection from future issues, as I agree that this will continue to be problematic. I cringe when reading these types of stories caused by decisions made in a split second that cause thousands of dollars of damage, similar to the nub on the oil cooler stopper being sheared off due to techs not following documented service procedures.

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RJDodge

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 20, 2022

@jmperlik That is good to know regarding OASIS, thank you. I’ll be sure to verify once it’s all said and done that this gets entered in there.

The service advisor messaged me today that they received a response from Ford and since they attempted to start the truck, they need to replace the fuel system. I verified what all that includes and they said fuel pump, fuel feed tube and seals, and a fuel injection kit (injectors, fuel pipes, and fuel supply manifolds). I trust that this is what Ford directed them to replace, and will cover everything that could be contaminated, apart from the tank itself.

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Laytunes

· #10 · Apr 21, 2022

RJDodge said:
@jmperlik That is good to know regarding OASIS, thank you. I’ll be sure to verify once it’s all said and done that this gets entered in there.

The service advisor messaged me today that they received a response from Ford and since they attempted to start the truck, they need to replace the fuel system. I verified what all that includes and they said fuel pump, fuel feed tube and seals, and a fuel injection kit (injectors, fuel pipes, and fuel supply manifolds). I trust that this is what Ford directed them to replace, and will cover everything that could be contaminated, apart from the tank itself.

Thats the best outcome you could have got. Glad they are replacing everything, water in the system is almost certain death for the pump and injectors; I wouldn't stand for it if they just cleaned it out and gave it back. The def would hit the pump almost instantly as it settles right to the bottom of the tank and gets picked up first, the lift pump circulates prior to starting to purge air. I agree since they tried to start it, this is what needs to be done.

Reactions: 2

RJDodge

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 21, 2022

Laytunes said:
Thats the best outcome you could have got. Glad they are replacing everything, water in the system is almost certain death for the pump and injectors; I wouldn't stand for it if they just cleaned it out and gave it back. The def would hit the pump almost instantly as it settles right to the bottom of the tank and gets picked up first, the lift pump circulates prior to starting to purge air. I agree since they tried to start it, this is what needs to be done.

Yeah I was glad corporate Ford informed them that everything needs replaced and it didn’t take any arguing. My only main outlying concern now is what the possibility is of damage to the cylinders. Hopefully they’ll inspect for this when they have the injectors removed.

Laytunes

· #12 · Apr 21, 2022

RJDodge said:
Yeah I was glad corporate Ford informed them that everything needs replaced and it didn’t take any arguing. My only main outlying concern now is what the possibility is of damage to the cylinders. Hopefully they’ll inspect for this when they have the injectors removed.

I would say basically no risk to your cylinders, very little would have actually made it in as the engine would have quit pretty fast. Make them change the oil again just to be sure.

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jmperlik

· #13 · Apr 25, 2022

@RJDodge - I'd love to see some digital pics of the condition of your pistons, cylinder walls, and valves when they borescope your engine. In fact, I might even demand they take and digitally attach them to your service record. If they do, please post them back here for the rest of us to see...

Reactions: 1

RJDodge

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 27, 2022

jmperlik said:
@RJDodge - I'd love to see some digital pics of the condition of your pistons, cylinder walls, and valves when they borescope your engine. In fact, I might even demand they take and digitally attach them to your service record. If they do, please post them back here for the rest of us to see...

After seeing this I messaged the service advisor asking for digital pictures of the cylinders once they inspect them. This is the response I received:
“Good afternoon. Sorry for the delay while we did some research. The cylinders are not something we will be accessing in this repair. We flushed the low pressure system, and will be replacing the filter, as well as the high pressure fuel system. In no way will the DEF ever cause crystallization in the engine . It is only cause for concern in the fuel system. This was all on advisement of FORD.”
I guess I’ll trust that Ford would know best. Ultimately it’ll still be there problem if it causes issues in the future.

Reactions: 3

PeteK

· #15 · Apr 27, 2022

I didn't see if you posted how many miles on the truck. I expect it's around 50,000 or less, so you still have a long way to go on the engine warranty. If there was some corrosion damage on the cylinder walls or rings, that will show up fairly quickly, so you will be well within the engine warranty period for that problem. I wouldn't worry about it. Drive on, knowing you now have a zero-miles fuel system and the latest design CP4 pump!

Reactions: 2

RJDodge

Discussion Starter · #16 · Apr 27, 2022

PeteK said:
I didn't see if you posted how many miles on the truck. I expect it's around 50,000 or less, so you still have a long way to go on the engine warranty. If there was some corrosion damage on the cylinder walls or rings, that will show up fairly quickly, so you will be well within the engine warranty period for that problem. I wouldn't worry about it. Drive on, knowing you now have a zero-miles fuel system and the latest design CP4 pump!

It only has just over 48,000 miles currently. That is a good point though, thank you. Definitely helps subside some of the worry haha.

Reactions: 1

Reinharm

· #17 · Apr 28, 2022

RJDodge said:
Well took my F-150 in for its first oil change since purchasing it back in November. Received a text an hour and a half later saying no issues and it’s ready for pickup. Came in, paid, and went to the valet to have it brought out. Was told it was still being serviced, so I asked how much longer to expect since my wife had already driven away. After a couple minutes the service advisor came out to tell me they couldn’t get it to start. They said it would crank, but wasn’t starting. After a couple hours, they shuttled me over to get a rental car.

Today I received a call that apparently the service technician accidentally put DEF into the fuel tank. Allegedly he caught his mistake, but still managed to put enough DEF in it to cause it not to start (with a full tank of diesel). They are now flushing it and are going to see if it will start. If it doesn’t, they plan to replace the fuel system.

From what I’ve read on my own, it sounds like this is practically death of the truck due to corrosion and crystallization of the Urea in the DEF. I’m pretty frustrated and bummed. I love this truck and planned to drive it till it died, but apparently that’s only going to be 5 months. I’m primarily frustrated because it wasn’t until today that they finally told me what happened when it sounds like they knew the entire time. Additionally, the technician didn’t acknowledge adding DEF to the fuel tank anywhere in the service report.

Now I’m just waiting for them to receive the parts to flush it and see what results that yields, but I’m not optimistic. Guess we’ll see what happens.

Well I hate to add potentially more misery to your situation but you need to check the anti siphon “nub” on the oil cooler where the oil filter sits to make sure they didn’t spin the oil filter on this is another “powerstroke” 3.0 anomaly. If damaged you will get low oil pressure messages. The dealer hosed mine during an oil change and it took over 6 months to get all the parts. Then they broke one of the covers during the repair. A real nightmare…. Thus I felt I had no choice but to get ESP warranty coverage out to 100k 7yrs

I love the truck but Ford did nothing to train the techs on this engine which probably contributed to your issue of def in the fuel

best of luck

Reactions: 3

RJDodge

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 28, 2022

Reinharm said:
Well I hate to add potentially more misery to your situation but you need to check the anti siphon “nub” on the oil cooler where the oil filter sits to make sure they didn’t spin the oil filter on this is another “powerstroke” 3.0 anomaly. If damaged you will get low oil pressure messages. The dealer hosed mine during an oil change and it took over 6 months to get all the parts. Then they broke one of the covers during the repair. A real nightmare…. Thus I felt I had no choice but to get ESP warranty coverage out to 100k 7yrs

I love the truck but Ford did nothing to train the techs on this engine which probably contributed to your issue of def in the fuel

best of luck

Just got done reading the thread on this issue and the saga you’ve been dealing with. Really hoping they didn’t screw this up as well. I assume I’ll be able to determine if this happened fairly quickly from the low oil pressure messages. Not confident that this was performed per the Ford instructions based on the slip up of DEF in the green hole. I’m staring to believe @jmperlik theory that Ford is slowly killing off us last remaining 3.0 owners. Thanks for the heads up, guess I’ll just cross my fingers for now until I get my truck back.

Reactions: 3

Reinharm

· #19 · Apr 28, 2022

RJDodge said:
Just got done reading the thread on this issue and the saga you’ve been dealing with. Really hoping they didn’t screw this up as well. I assume I’ll be able to determine if this happened fairly quickly from the low oil pressure messages. Not confident that this was performed per the Ford instructions based on the slip up of DEF in the green hole. I’m staring to believe @jmperlik theory that Ford is slowly killing off us last remaining 3.0 owners. Thanks for the heads up, guess I’ll just cross my fingers for now until I get my truck back.

Now when I bring the truck in I go straight to the service managers office and request that a certified diesel tech perform the oil filter installation. So far they have complied

I wanted to do the changes myself with a vacuum pump but the oil pan has baffles so the drain tube can’t make it to the bottom so unless you want to crawl under the truck and deal with all that dirty oil we’re stuck…
As for filling def I’ve always done that myself since it’s easy and unless I’m towing a full tank lasts 6 months. Call me paranoid but I always feared exactly what happened to you would be likely given the lack of knowledge by the dealers

Reactions: 2

beaker

· #20 · Apr 29, 2022

Reinharm said:
Well I hate to add potentially more misery to your situation but you need to check the anti siphon “nub” on the oil cooler where the oil filter sits to make sure they didn’t spin the oil filter on this is another “powerstroke” 3.0 anomaly. If damaged you will get low oil pressure messages. The dealer hosed mine during an oil change and it took over 6 months to get all the parts. Then they broke one of the covers during the repair. A real nightmare…. Thus I felt I had no choice but to get ESP warranty coverage out to 100k 7yrs

I love the truck but Ford did nothing to train the techs on this engine which probably contributed to your issue of def in the fuel

best of luck

I am not intentionally trying to be a contrarian, but these dealership experiences are exactly why I don't want an extended warranty. If something breaks, at least I can fix it myself and know that it will be done correctly.

One of my last warranty claims involved a failed tire pressure monitoring system (not a Ford, but same process). I drove the 250 miles to my nearest dealer where they "repinned" the wires to the control module. That lasted a year. Then they installed "repair wires" which lasted another year. All told, 1,000 miles and 4 days driving back and forth to the dealer for warranty repairs that were unsuccessful Once I got out of warranty I fixed it myself. Warranty repairs were an abomination. The rubber seals for the connector were missing, the "repair wires" didn't go far enough back. I fixed it myself, which took me 4 hours and and the repair has been going strong for four years now. I've fixed botched recall repairs, loosened nuts that were "frozen - could not align", fuel lines that have split open due to short-cuts, and a lot more. I am frankly tired of it, and now do what I can to keep technician hands off my own vehicles.

There are some independent shops that bill by what the job takes. They are typically more expensive, but there is no incentive to take short-cuts so they can beat the "flate-rate" pay for a job. They are not dealers. I hate to bad-mouth technicians, but I seem to find the ones that don't care or don't know. Apparently, I'm not the only one.

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