So what's this about def, I was told if you use the wrong kind then the warranty is void. How do you know the right stuff to get? 3600 miles on it and everything is going well, Yes I did get the recall but haven't contacted the dealership yet. Any help here?
Def
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Joined
·
377 Posts
Owners Manual specifies:
Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) (U.S.): Motorcraft® Diesel Exhaust Fluid PM-27-GAL / PM-27-JUG
Specification: WSS-M99C130-A
So, if you want to go "buy the book" that would be the DEF to put in. I have just over 4,000 miles on mine now and my DEF gauge is reading 1/4-3/8, so this has been on my mind lately too.
Here is the best pricing I have found on OEM:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mof-pm27jug
If you buy 8 jugs of 2.5 gallons you get just over the $100 mark with free shipping and use Promo Code ALWAYS for another $11 discount brings the total down to $100.33 (after taxes) = $12.54 per 2.5 gallon jug for OEM, with free 3 day ground shipping.
The shelf life on DEF is supposed to be 2 years, and I have historically been averaging ~22,000 miles/year, and figuring 2 jugs every 5,000 miles = ~8 jugs per year, so I just pulled the trigger on this order. I had read some posts elsewhere about non-OEM brands possibly throwing some codes (on Super Duty's), so with this pricing being very competitive to picking up Peak BlueDEF in the local store I just decided to stay with OEM.
I previously also ordered this OEM nozzle assembly to attach to the 2.5 gallon jugs to prevent overfilling the DEF tank and spilling over:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008B5WVF8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have read that this DEF is caustic stuff, so take precautions to not spill any on your paint. I am planning on taping up a garbage bag on the side of the truck to protect the paint on my first fill attempt which looks like will be later this week when the product is delivered.
@1oldengin Hope this helps, and thanks a lot for the great question. I was going to go out today to Sams Club and pick up some Peak BlueDEF (which is top rated stuff--> https://bestreviews.com/best-diesel-exhaust-fluids ) but now after doing more research to answer your question will wait on the Summit Racing delivery of Motorcraft OEM DEF. I figure why not use OEM if it will prevent getting some codes thrown over the DEF non-OEM brand put in (of course, this is probably rare to happen), and also no worries over warranty coverage since using OEM.
Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) (U.S.): Motorcraft® Diesel Exhaust Fluid PM-27-GAL / PM-27-JUG
Specification: WSS-M99C130-A
So, if you want to go "buy the book" that would be the DEF to put in. I have just over 4,000 miles on mine now and my DEF gauge is reading 1/4-3/8, so this has been on my mind lately too.
Here is the best pricing I have found on OEM:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mof-pm27jug
If you buy 8 jugs of 2.5 gallons you get just over the $100 mark with free shipping and use Promo Code ALWAYS for another $11 discount brings the total down to $100.33 (after taxes) = $12.54 per 2.5 gallon jug for OEM, with free 3 day ground shipping.
The shelf life on DEF is supposed to be 2 years, and I have historically been averaging ~22,000 miles/year, and figuring 2 jugs every 5,000 miles = ~8 jugs per year, so I just pulled the trigger on this order. I had read some posts elsewhere about non-OEM brands possibly throwing some codes (on Super Duty's), so with this pricing being very competitive to picking up Peak BlueDEF in the local store I just decided to stay with OEM.
I previously also ordered this OEM nozzle assembly to attach to the 2.5 gallon jugs to prevent overfilling the DEF tank and spilling over:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008B5WVF8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have read that this DEF is caustic stuff, so take precautions to not spill any on your paint. I am planning on taping up a garbage bag on the side of the truck to protect the paint on my first fill attempt which looks like will be later this week when the product is delivered.
@1oldengin Hope this helps, and thanks a lot for the great question. I was going to go out today to Sams Club and pick up some Peak BlueDEF (which is top rated stuff--> https://bestreviews.com/best-diesel-exhaust-fluids ) but now after doing more research to answer your question will wait on the Summit Racing delivery of Motorcraft OEM DEF. I figure why not use OEM if it will prevent getting some codes thrown over the DEF non-OEM brand put in (of course, this is probably rare to happen), and also no worries over warranty coverage since using OEM.
Joined
·
377 Posts
UPS delivered my Summit Racing order of Motorcraft OEM DEF today. The delivery guy rang the door bell and asked if I wanted it in the garage. I said sure, let me open it, then realized he had a dolly with 4 big boxes on it so I had him wheel it all the way into the garage. Once I lifted one of the boxes I understand why he asked if I wanted it in the garage, as he was not wanting to carry those boxes up ~7 concrete steps to my front door.
Summit Racing did same day shipping, and they double-boxed the DEF and also had those plastic air bag pouches between the outside and inside box as well. Very impressed with this ordering experience.
If I had to do the order all over again, I probably would have ordered 4 DEF 2.5 gallon containers instead of 8, and ordered some Motorcraft OEM diesel fuel additive from them, as I noticed they sell that also and at the best price I've seen. I have been using Power Service white through the winter as it is available at my local Fleet Farm and provides antigel + cetane boost.
Here are links to Summit Racing Motorcraft OEM diesel fuel additives (1 20oz bottle of either treats 125 gallons):
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mof-pm23a $7.99 (winter antigel)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mof-pm22a $7.99 (cetane booster and performance improver)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mof-pm27n (OEM nozzle assembly to attach to the 2.5 gallon jugs to prevent overfilling the DEF tank and spilling over)
Hope this post benefits others. It looks like Summit Racing changes up their Promo Code offerings, even since I ordered a few days ago, so if your going to order the Promo Code I mentioned in my above post may no longer be valid. I still can't believe I received this 4 big heavy boxes with free shipping!
Summit Racing did same day shipping, and they double-boxed the DEF and also had those plastic air bag pouches between the outside and inside box as well. Very impressed with this ordering experience.
If I had to do the order all over again, I probably would have ordered 4 DEF 2.5 gallon containers instead of 8, and ordered some Motorcraft OEM diesel fuel additive from them, as I noticed they sell that also and at the best price I've seen. I have been using Power Service white through the winter as it is available at my local Fleet Farm and provides antigel + cetane boost.
Here are links to Summit Racing Motorcraft OEM diesel fuel additives (1 20oz bottle of either treats 125 gallons):
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mof-pm23a $7.99 (winter antigel)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mof-pm22a $7.99 (cetane booster and performance improver)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mof-pm27n (OEM nozzle assembly to attach to the 2.5 gallon jugs to prevent overfilling the DEF tank and spilling over)
Hope this post benefits others. It looks like Summit Racing changes up their Promo Code offerings, even since I ordered a few days ago, so if your going to order the Promo Code I mentioned in my above post may no longer be valid. I still can't believe I received this 4 big heavy boxes with free shipping!
G
Guest
·There's not a "wrong" DEF. I've been using DEF since 2011 and used several brands. The only time I've had a problem is using the pumps at a fuel station that are right beside the diesel pumps. The underground tanks get water from condensation and water and dirt from the pressure washers used on the parking lot. If there is too much water your truck will throw a contaminated def error. The factory's stance at that point is to replace the whole system (about $1800 is what it cost me on a F350 with the 6.7l). It's much safer to use the small 2.5 gallon containers. I try to always wait until its low enough to get a full container in so that I don't have to worry about contamination in the container before I'm able to get it all in the tank.
I know everyone doesn't have a Buccees near them but I am fortunate enough to have one right down the road. Not only is there fuel price always the lowest but they carry a brand of DEF that is $5.85 per 2.5 gallon container (plus tax). I've used this almost exclusively for probably close to 200,000 miles on 3 different trucks since 2011 and the only time I've had any problem was the one time I filled up with a pump at a truck stop.
It may seem "pricey" when you look at the cost per gallon but on this F150 I've used $46.99 of DEF for 8,630 miles which comes to $0.005/mile. Not really much of a factor in the overall cost to operate the vehicle.
And it's not caustic enough to hurt your paint. I've spilled it down the side of the truck many times (those throw away nozzles tend to leak all over the place, usually on my boots), just wipe it off.
Worry less about the brand and more about the cleanliness. I wait until just under half a tank of DEF then put a whole new, sealed container in.
I know everyone doesn't have a Buccees near them but I am fortunate enough to have one right down the road. Not only is there fuel price always the lowest but they carry a brand of DEF that is $5.85 per 2.5 gallon container (plus tax). I've used this almost exclusively for probably close to 200,000 miles on 3 different trucks since 2011 and the only time I've had any problem was the one time I filled up with a pump at a truck stop.
It may seem "pricey" when you look at the cost per gallon but on this F150 I've used $46.99 of DEF for 8,630 miles which comes to $0.005/mile. Not really much of a factor in the overall cost to operate the vehicle.
And it's not caustic enough to hurt your paint. I've spilled it down the side of the truck many times (those throw away nozzles tend to leak all over the place, usually on my boots), just wipe it off.
Worry less about the brand and more about the cleanliness. I wait until just under half a tank of DEF then put a whole new, sealed container in.
Joined
·
377 Posts
@djman from reading some of your other posts I seem to recall that you tow trailers with some heavier loads frequently--is this why you are going through so much DEF? How often in terms of mileage are you traveling in between full regens?
I am interested in how others have been doing with DEF addition frequency. You will see in the attached image that after 4,166 miles I have > 1/4 tank of DEF remaining, and it baffles me that it says "Range: 4500 mi"? I know that at one time I saw a much lower number than that, like in the 2xxx - 3xxx mile range. My regens have been happening about every 325 miles and have not done any towing yet. I am about to add my first 2.5 gal jug of DEF now, and will be curious after doing that what the new reported "Range: xxxx mi" is.
Thanks to those that take the time to comment on their DEF usage experiences.
Attachments
Joined
·
377 Posts
Yeah, that photo was taken parked at a diesel fuel up pump. I found a station that has non-winterized #2 Diesel in the car lanes, and winterized diesel in the big rig lanes, so I was trying to run all the winter diesel out of my tank as close as I was comfortable with before refueling. With 13 miles to empty, I was able to fill up 24.463 gallons, and that is with The Fast Lane Truck (https://www.tfltruck.com/) refuel approach of wait 30 seconds after the pump clicks off, then pump until it clicks off a second time. I am using Power Service White additive for anti gel + cetane boost, so I am no longer feeling the love for the winter blend diesel now that the Polar Vortex has passed. So far in 4,166.6 miles I have pumped in 210.336 gallons = 19.81 mpg overall and truck computer LOM reports 21.1 (LOM = Lie-O-Meter). After the straight non-winterized #2 truck computer reports 25.1 mpg on the 15.2 mile ride home from the station, so we'll see how the whole tank averages out.
I should say that I read somewhere it is a best practice to refuel at ~1/4 tank, but I think everyone needs to push it close to empty once or twice to actually figure out where empty actually is--just don't run out because that of course is a bad idea from multiple angles. My goal is going to try to refill just before or at the time truck flashes up "50 Miles to Empty" on the screen.
Above aside, I did watch a Ford Motorcraft YouTube video that stated expect to refill DEF at every oil change, unless the type of driving you are doing is using more DEF than normally expected (perhaps djman situation). It also said that for the gauge to recognize DEF addition that one should add a minimum of 2.5 gallons (and may have to drive the truck a day sometimes for it to realize the fill was done). Also they stated that in the northern climates where temps drop (e.g., MN where I am), that you don't want to completely have a full DEF tank so that it has room to expand when it freezes--I read that somewhere else as well. That being said, I am still interested in how other trucks have been doing with their DEF consumption--thanks.
I should say that I read somewhere it is a best practice to refuel at ~1/4 tank, but I think everyone needs to push it close to empty once or twice to actually figure out where empty actually is--just don't run out because that of course is a bad idea from multiple angles. My goal is going to try to refill just before or at the time truck flashes up "50 Miles to Empty" on the screen.
Above aside, I did watch a Ford Motorcraft YouTube video that stated expect to refill DEF at every oil change, unless the type of driving you are doing is using more DEF than normally expected (perhaps djman situation). It also said that for the gauge to recognize DEF addition that one should add a minimum of 2.5 gallons (and may have to drive the truck a day sometimes for it to realize the fill was done). Also they stated that in the northern climates where temps drop (e.g., MN where I am), that you don't want to completely have a full DEF tank so that it has room to expand when it freezes--I read that somewhere else as well. That being said, I am still interested in how other trucks have been doing with their DEF consumption--thanks.
G
Guest
·Regens are dependent on your dpf and don't affect the def.
DEF does tie together pretty much with fuel consumption because the whole reason for its use is to reduce your NOX. NOX is higher when you burn more fuel, if I manage to run a tank without pulling a trailer then the DEF gauge goes up in its estimated range. Since I pull trailers quite often that is rarely the case but they are definitely tied to each other.
I'm not sure how often I'm getting the regen. On the Super Duty's a message flashes on the dash telling you it is cleaning the dpf, there is no message like that on the F150's. I have used Forscan to activate the dpf percentage screen but I only look at it occasionally to see where it is. You get fewer regen's if you haul a lot. When your EGT's stay above 600 degrees the soot burns out by itself to some extent and the regen isn't necessary. I can tell when it is in regen by watching my lie-o-meter, mileage will drop 1/2 to 1 mpg when its in regen. If you notice your mileage going down when it should be staying steady you know you're in regen. I can tell by the smell when I get out of my truck if I stopped the engine during a regen and usually will start it back up and let it idle for a few minutes to cool down the exhaust and turbo. Regen runs your EGT up over 1100 degrees, if you turn your engine off during that then your turbo is superheated and still spinning for an amazing long time, with no fresh oil going to the bearings. I try to avoid that when possible. If I'm in a hurry I use the remote start to turn the truck back on so it will idle and cool down by the time the timer turns the engine off.
I know it seems like a lot of trouble but in all my miles I've never lost a turbo, the only major damage I've had in all my miles was from running a tuner and full delete on a 2011 6.7 dually. (Don't leave it on the "hot" setting while pulling a gooseneck loaded with 30,000lbs of steel is the lesson there.)
DEF does tie together pretty much with fuel consumption because the whole reason for its use is to reduce your NOX. NOX is higher when you burn more fuel, if I manage to run a tank without pulling a trailer then the DEF gauge goes up in its estimated range. Since I pull trailers quite often that is rarely the case but they are definitely tied to each other.
I'm not sure how often I'm getting the regen. On the Super Duty's a message flashes on the dash telling you it is cleaning the dpf, there is no message like that on the F150's. I have used Forscan to activate the dpf percentage screen but I only look at it occasionally to see where it is. You get fewer regen's if you haul a lot. When your EGT's stay above 600 degrees the soot burns out by itself to some extent and the regen isn't necessary. I can tell when it is in regen by watching my lie-o-meter, mileage will drop 1/2 to 1 mpg when its in regen. If you notice your mileage going down when it should be staying steady you know you're in regen. I can tell by the smell when I get out of my truck if I stopped the engine during a regen and usually will start it back up and let it idle for a few minutes to cool down the exhaust and turbo. Regen runs your EGT up over 1100 degrees, if you turn your engine off during that then your turbo is superheated and still spinning for an amazing long time, with no fresh oil going to the bearings. I try to avoid that when possible. If I'm in a hurry I use the remote start to turn the truck back on so it will idle and cool down by the time the timer turns the engine off.
I know it seems like a lot of trouble but in all my miles I've never lost a turbo, the only major damage I've had in all my miles was from running a tuner and full delete on a 2011 6.7 dually. (Don't leave it on the "hot" setting while pulling a gooseneck loaded with 30,000lbs of steel is the lesson there.)
Joined
·
377 Posts
Thanks for the explanation djman--it is very helpful knowledge sharing on your part, so thanks for taking the time to provide it!
I did find a helpful YouTube video as well -->
So, I added 2.5 gal of OEM DEF to my truck today, and now my Range is 11,000 miles as seen in the below attached photo. My gauge reading also went up from just over ~3/8 full to ~7/8 full now also.
I did find a helpful YouTube video as well -->
So, I added 2.5 gal of OEM DEF to my truck today, and now my Range is 11,000 miles as seen in the below attached photo. My gauge reading also went up from just over ~3/8 full to ~7/8 full now also.
Attachments
I picked up a jug of Motorcraft DEF from my dealer yesterday for $12.64 not including 6% PA sales tax. Seemed reasonable to me. I intend to use nothing but Motorcraft DEF. My DEF gauge still shows almost 3/4 full but we are taking a trip with the truck from here in ne PA to central Florida this weekend. I won't be loaded very heavy but I'll still post my overall mileage when we get back in a couple of weeks.
Joined
·
5 Posts
How much def are you guys burning while towing ? I towed a 18 foot enclosed 800km on the weekend and used half a tank of def ... this seems excessive to me?? Seeing how I normally get 10,000 km per fill not towing ..
I have noticed increased def use while towing a tandem axle larger trailers
Just so you know these trucks use a combined diesel oxidative catalyst/DPF, which means that most of the additional heat is produced within the DPF due to a reaction between hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, and the catalyst impregnated DPF substrate. So during a regen, the EGR is reduced which raises the EGT slightly (around 900-950 F) to get the conditions in the DPF right for the catalytic reaction, and raw diesel is then injected on the exhaust stroke to provide the hydrocarbon part of the equation. When it all hits the DPF, the catalytic reaction produces heat, which raises the temp in the DPF to the point where the soot burns out. So the temperature in your turbo does not reach any dangerous levels. You can watch this in forscan, the temperature upstream of the DPF (after the turbo) is cooler than downstream. Regardless of this however I do agree that if you have to shut down during a regen, or after towing heavy, give the truck a minute to breathe before shutting it down to be safe (in park as this will kill the regen cycle).
Also your DEF fluid consumption will increase during regeneration, as NOx emissions are formed due to high temperatures, so more urea is needed to counteract this during regen. This is why you hear your DEF injector ticking when your truck is in regen mode, it's injecting at a way faster rate... so more regenerations means more DEF.
The higher the EGT's, the more DEF is needed to counteract NOx formation, simple as that. So towing, or having more regens due to mainly city driving, will both lead to higher DEF consumption.
Joined
·
7 Posts
Pulled 6500lb low hauler motorcycle trailer 2100mi and used 7+gal DEF and 161 gal Fuel. Started out with a full tank and at 850 mile into the trip got the 500mi to empty warning. I was told to expect 1 gal of DEF used per 50 gal of Diesel when I purchased the truck.
Called the service department and the service manager thinks the usage is excessive but is waiting for more feedback from his Diesel tech. Not to many 3.0 out in our area.
Called the service department and the service manager thinks the usage is excessive but is waiting for more feedback from his Diesel tech. Not to many 3.0 out in our area.
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
