[DL Brown]

I have a 2018 3.0L with 15,000 miles on it. After the first oil change by the dealer at 3000 miles, the engine comes up to temp 192. I lose oil pressure at an idle. Dealer replaced the sensor 3 times. And I'm still having the issue. Ford recommended the oil pump be replaced. New part number for this oil pump. I left the dealership after new oil pump installed, and the same thing happens when the engine comes up to temp. The dealership has now had my truck for over a month. Ford motor company has no idea to what is wrong. They are sending an engineer to to the dealership to determine what the issue is. I am very unhappy with Ford at this point. The engine was starves of oil, it knocked hard the last few times this happen. I asked for a buy back on this truck. It has issues. Anyone else have the same problem?

 

[jamanrr]

I have a 2018 3.0L with 15,000 miles on it. After the first oil change by the dealer at 3000 miles, the engine comes up to temp 192. I lose oil pressure at an idle. Dealer replaced the sensor 3 times. And I'm still having the issue. Ford recommended the oil pump be replaced. New part number for this oil pump. I left the dealership after new oil pump installed, and the same thing happens when the engine comes up to temp. The dealership has now had my truck for over a month. Ford motor company has no idea to what is wrong. They are sending an engineer to to the dealership to determine what the issue is. I am very unhappy with Ford at this point. The engine was starves of oil, it knocked hard the last few times this happen. I asked for a buy back on this truck. It has issues. Anyone else have the same problem?

Is the low oil pressure light coming on? I have not seen this issue yet with the 3 liter diesel motors. Did you have any other symptoms before the oil pressure warning such as missing or noises?

 

[DL Brown]

The low oil pressure light comes on and warning bell. No other symptoms. This has been an issue, as the dealer told me that they have changed the oil pump on 2 other trucks. Ford has a new part number for the oil pump. Look for this to be a recall in the future. My anger stems from dealing with Ford over this issue. They are dragging their feet on replacing the engine. The engine clearly knocked hard hard from being starved of oil. This only happens at an idle when your in gear. If you place the truck in park or neutral, the RPM's come up enough to bring the oil pressure up. But after they changed the oil pump it also loses oil pressure at around 5 MPH.

 

[jamanrr]

Your problem is the first I have heard of this. So I assume you have auto/ stop start if you are in gear and come to a complete stop the truck will shut down. I am not sure why your oil pressure drops if it is rpm specific or you have something else internally going on in the engine. Have you always had the oil changed at the dealership with the specific Motorcraft diesel oil? Wrong oil viscosity can cause low pressure warnings but so can a lot of other things as well.



When you rev the engine or under normal loads does the oil light stay on, it would be interesting to monitor the oil pressure while your driving to see where it is dipping into low pressure.

 

[jmperlik]

@DL Brown - given you have 15K miles on your odometer and done at least one (1) oil change, may we ask what brand of oil you are using and what viscosity?

 

[DL Brown]

Yes, I have auto start/stop. I hate it, and disable it when I startup. Oil changes have all been performed by the dealer using 5/30 recommended oil. Under normal load the the pressure is fine and and light goes off. Dealership still has my truck, they are waiting for the Ford engineering team to get here this week. I'm located in Utah.

 

[DL Brown]

All oil changes have been done by the dealer at this point. 1 year free oil changes with purchase of truck. A total of 3 have been performed at 5000. They are using the Motor craft 5/30 recommended oil.

 

[jamanrr]

okay, in order for auto start stop to work properly it needs normal readings from 12 parameters and I believe oil pressure to be one of them. Did the auto/ start stop always work on your truck? Since they replaced the pressure sensor several times I would tend to go towards other issues being involved such as the ECU or programming. Low oil pressure at idle can be sign of bearing failure and wear but your truck is too new for any of that. I would imagine the oil pump on this 3 liter is buried within the engine meaning they might as well put a new crate motor in which sounds like what they are doing.



You will have to let us know what the outcome is,

 

[DL Brown]

I will keep you posted on the outcome. Yes the auto stop/start has always worked. And even when the it's engaged for for auto shut off it has the issue. The oil pump isn't that bad to to change. The front is off and that's it

 

[jmperlik]

After replacing the oil pump, I would think their next action should be to drop the lower oil pan cover and see if the oil pickup screen (see Page 18 of 3.0L Ford F-150 Diesel Coffee Table Book) has any debris that would be restricting flow, as it sounds like the issue goes away as RPMs increase, so perhaps partial blockage of the oil pickup could be a cause.

Now you may not like what you find in the pickup screen, but if metal shavings, then you might have more evidence to support your buyback request.

I would think this check should have be done by now, given they have FRU-replaced 2 sensors and an oil pump assembly -- dropping the lower oil pan is probably easier than either of the things they have already replaced....

 

[DL Brown]

Thanks for the link

 

[BriGuy]

Hmmm. I have gotten low oil pressure warnings a few times when coming to a stop at a stop light or stop sign. Last time it happened, I pulled over and checked the oil level, which looked OK. I had just had the oil changed the week before at the dealer. I am going to have them look at it on Friday, so I will keep you posted. I was hoping it was just a sensor issue.

 

[jamanrr]

The motor does hold more oil than a gas burner

 

[Jgleadle]

Thanks for the info.. when was your truck manufactured ?

apologies if this question was asked and answered already..

 

[Axles of Evil]

Oh dear.....My suspicion here centers around dealership dumbassery being in full swing.

F150....duh....they all use the same oil right?????...I can actually almost see the scene now.

Did you put the correct oil in this?......Urrrrrr......well...yeah I did.

Wow....ask me how I just happen to have experience with such things.

Anyways....

"Recommended Oil"....willing to bet that regular motor oil may have been used and not that special F150 Motorcraft Diesel variety....as it cost more than the regular ****e. This engine requires a certain oil to function correctly, so much so that even the design is incorporated into the emmissions system. Regular motor oil is NOT made to suspend the generated contaminants that are produced in a Diesel engine, and as such will put the hurt on the engine very quickly.

Willing to bet this started at some point AFTER the original oil was drained and changed.

Be interesting to follow this lead down....

Regards

 

[jmperlik]

@Axles of Evil does bring up an interesting but plausible theory of what could have possibly happened..

@DL Brown - I would go back and check the part numbers on your oil change ROs (Repair Orders) for the oil used, as perhaps they mistakenly used:
i.) Standard F150 gasoline engine oil or
̶i̶i̶.̶)̶ ̶S̶t̶a̶n̶d̶a̶r̶d̶ ̶S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶D̶u̶t̶y̶ ̶D̶i̶e̶s̶e̶l̶ ̶e̶n̶g̶i̶n̶e̶ ̶o̶i̶l̶

As discussed in previous threads like in What oil are you guys using?, our F150 3.0L "Lion" PowerStroke engines "require" the new generic FA-4 or Ford-specific WSS-M2C214-B1 oil spec:
=> If you check Post #13 of that thread, I included a link to a PDF with the part numbers for this oil, which I have also screen-capped here
=> You will notice that Ford specifically added "F150" into the name of the oil in order to clearly differentiate from the standard Diesel Oil used in all of the SuperDutys
=> You will notice that at the time of publication for this PDF, Ford only offered this oil in quart bottles (no cases or 55 gallon drums)

Ford tried to clearly differentiate this special oil but what Ford cannot influence is the skill level of the techs doing the oil changes at the dealerships are usually entry-level kids with the least amount of experience that are paid the least in the shop, so mistakes like @Axles of Evil raise are possible = check the part numbers for the oil used in your Repair Orders

 

[Laytunes]

Its also fine if they used the standard 6.7 litre diesel oil. WSS-M2C171-F1 oil is also compatible with this engine and required for severe duty service. I can only see oil being an issue if they used gas SN service oil. But both FA-4 and CK-4 Spec diesel oil is fine.

 

[jamanrr]

Okay then is there a specific reason why Ford Motorcraft FA-4 motor oil specifically states Ford F150 diesel oil on each bottle? Probably because it is the only Motorcraft oil specifically made for this engine. Europe/ Japan get different spec oil than we do here.

 

[Laytunes]

Yes.. because that oil would destroy a 6.7 if you were to go the other way around and use it there, so it needs to be very clearly labelled. The FA-4 is a new spec oil (2017) which has a low HTHS viscosity of 3.0 which can only be used in engines which have been specifically designed for such low high-temp viscosities. The spec was introduced in order to improve fuel economy.

The F-150 manual states that this oil is preferred for normal use; however if you fall under the "severe duty" service (lots of idle, extreme temps, towing, stop and go traffic, etc) they state to use CK-4 oil meeting WSS-M2C171-F1, which is your super duty spec. So it's fine to use CK-4 in your F150 diesel, but it is NOT ok to use FA-4 spec in your 6.7.

In europe these are spec'd with ACEA C3 oil which is a low SAPS oil specific for emissions control systems. The HTHS of that spec is typically around 3.5, which is the minimum for the CK-4 category range! The only version of this engine to use an FA-4 oil with low HTHS viscosity (2.8-3.2) is this F-150 version, as they supposedly replaced the bearing to allow for this (note that they did not modify all parts of the engine for this). HTHS viscosity is also commonly referred to as film strength. Higher film strength is commonly associated with greater longevity, and thus since CK-4 spec is allowed in this engine, that is the spec I will/would use.

 

[jmperlik]

@Laytunes - I'm not going to challenge your expertise in this field, as you clearly know this subject matter better than I...

I thought I remembered reading in an article previously that Ford took issue with the CK-4 API because it showed inadequate wear protection in some of their engine longevity tests. I found this document while googling again today: Ford Motor Company CK-4/FA-4 Ford Position Statement that refers to this:

Testing completed on some CK-4 type formulations have shown inadequate wear protection compared to CJ-4 formulations developed and licensed before 2016. Therefore, Ford has included additional requirements beyond CK-4 in WSSM2C171-F1 to provide additional wear protection. Like many other diesel engine manufacturers, with their own internal OEM specification, Ford is recommending oils that meet, Ford Material Engineering Specification WSS-M2C171-F1. The customer should use an oil that meets this specification.

so I like your "CK-4 meeting WSS-M2C171-F1 specification" disclaimer, as opposed to just quoting a generic "CK-4" API.

Of course the problem is, the human brain can remember the easy CK-4 API while shopping for oil, as opposed to the more complicated Ford WSS-M2C171-F1 Ford specification...

I agree with everything you have stated: You can use CK-4 API meeting WSS-M2C171-F1 specification for "severe duty"

As an aside, I have an engineering degree from RPI, but not a Mechanical Engineering degree, BUT I did work in the Tribology Lab for college work study and wrote a research paper for Texaco on determining wear loss via 2D linear measurements with a Taylor-Hobson Talysurf Profilometer vs the standard technique of calculating the mass via before/after weights of the sample = pretty cool hands-on work study job that I got two (2) independent study "A" grades for, along with getting paid and 3 "Texaco Most Outstanding Student in Tribology" cash awards... I'll never forgot the look on the face of the Assistant Dean for the Mechanical Engineering department at the final luncheon with the rep from Texaco where I got the last award, when the Dean found out I wasn't a Mech-E major... (Award was supposed to go to a rising senior in Mechanical Engineering, but I ended up "winning" it 3 straight years because I was the only undergrad working in the lab!)