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@lawdog - best working theory to-date is chaffing in the wiring harness going to the oil pressure switch:


Maybe have your dealer check the wiring harness in the area @RLVoumard explained?
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Thanks, I saw that thread and found that very interesting. Had it not been for the fact the dealer has now yanked out the oil pump and reassembled I would look further into it. Now my truck is making noises at idle it never did before. Enough is enough I feel. I'm actually trading it tomorrow on a platinum edition with the 3.5 and moving on. Not sure if mods allow but I do have some leftover maintenance parts from my diesel....is there a for sale section here??
 

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@lawdog - sorry to hear that you're "tapping out" on your F150 3.0L PS Diesel, but I can't say I can blame you. The Service tech that found the chaffing wires on Rodney's (@RLVoumard) F150 made the most sense and I think Ford had your techs take things a little-too-far by replacing/rebuilding the oil pump.

I can talk to the site admins about setting up a "For Sale" or "Classifieds" sub-forum = no promises!
 
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@lawdog - best working theory to-date is chaffing in the wiring harness going to the oil pressure switch:


Maybe have your dealer check the wiring harness in the area @RLVoumard explained?
I have 2019 which I bought out of the state I live in . The low oil pressure light keep coming on after a month I owned it . The vehicle only has 10000 miles so I brought it to a local dealer , 1st they couldn’t find the problem . 2,I had to leave it for 2 weeks for the tech to confirm the oil light and the sender was changed. With in 3 days the light came back on. Being a mechanic for 40 years I explained to the that after a long idle the light doesn’t come on . Now the repair “they think” is an oil cooler ,during the oil cooler replacement the fuel lines got damaged. The truck has been at Ford longer than I owned it . What could be next!!!
 

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I have 2019 which I bought out of the state I live in . The low oil pressure light keep coming on after a month I owned it . The vehicle only has 10000 miles so I brought it to a local dealer , 1st they couldn’t find the problem . 2,I had to leave it for 2 weeks for the tech to confirm the oil light and the sender was changed. With in 3 days the light came back on. Being a mechanic for 40 years I explained to the that after a long idle the light doesn’t come on . Now the repair “they think” is an oil cooler ,during the oil cooler replacement the fuel lines got damaged. The truck has been at Ford longer than I owned it . What could be next!!!
 

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@lawdog - got approval for a new Classifieds section in the forums with the following sub-forums:
1991
 

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Hey guys, im a Ford Diesel tech and I have came across this issue before. I have replaced the oil pressure switch, checked wiring and all seemed to be ok. Until i noticed the rubber seal that sits under the oil filter, inside the oil filter housing. It most likely broke off when installing the oil filter from a previous oil change. The only way to repair this was to replace the oil cooler housing. Again the time it acted up was after an extended drive and when its at a complete stop. Here are some pictures of the concern:
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Forgot to mention, that rubber seal is what prevents oil to drain back into the oilpan. With out that, insufficient oil pressure may occur when engine is hot
 

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Hey guys, I'm a Ford Diesel tech and I have came across this issue before. I have replaced the oil pressure switch, checked wiring and all seemed to be ok. Until i noticed the rubber seal that sits under the oil filter, inside the oil filter housing. It most likely broke off when installing the oil filter from a previous oil change. The only way to repair this was to replace the oil cooler housing. Again the time it acted up was after an extended drive and when its at a complete stop.

Forgot to mention, that rubber seal is what prevents oil to drain back into the oilpan. With out that, insufficient oil pressure may occur when engine is hot
@Kval - Hallelujah, a Ford-certified diesel technician has joined our ranks = BIG welcome to the club! Please introduce yourself in a thread over in the New Member Introductions sub-forum when you have a chance.

We have a number of owners who have experienced this intermittent & annoying "Low Oil Pressure" warning, for which Ford Corporate doesn't seem (to me at least) have an answer for, based on the parts cannon (oil pressure switch, oil pumps, oil coolers, etc) they are firing at this for issues out-in-the-field.

Ford has already lost one owner (@lawdog) who traded his F150 PS Diesel in because of this issue. How do I know? I just sent a check for some of his left-over diesel parts that he is selling in our new Classifieds section. While Ford didn't lose @lawdog as an owner/customer (think he dropped back to an F150 3.5 EB), Ford definitely isn't making $$$ with this strategy nor helping their customer satisfaction ratings.

What you describe definitely sounds like it could be the root cause, although I don't understand why the oil cooler housing needs to be replaced to fix this? Is the rubber stopper part of the oil cooler assembly or something that is part of the oil filter? You are saying that anyone doing their own oil changes or using a "Quick oil change" service could cause this issue due to incorrect filter removal/installation? Seems like a poor design to me...

If you know this and have proven that replacing the oil cooler housing resolves the issue, shouldn't there be a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) or something along those lines to guide Ford-certified Diesel techs thru possible causes? Based on the small sample size here in the forums, we have seen many oil switch/sensors and associated wiring harnesses (@BriGuy @rwharris1846 @Dunrollin @RLVoumard) being swapped out, along with oil cooler (@Sheetmetal Man) being replaced and oil pump (@lawdog) being rebuilt.

Welcome again to the forums and I hope we can pick your brain to learn more of the details of the 3.0L "Lion" engine used in our trucks!
 

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Yes this was the root cause of the one i have repaired in the past. The unfortunate thing about it is, you would have to replace the cooler assembly. They dont sell the rubber seal separately. Even if they did, you may have a chance of bending or breaking the brass spring at the bottom of the housing. Why did ford not create a TSB on this issue? I asked the same question to Ford engineers. There just havint been enough of these low oil pressure issues around to produce one.

I was also stumped on this job. I googled it and found this forum and was surprised by the amount of people that have the same issue. And other techs that are throwing in oil pumps thinking that would fix it. Thats when i had to create an account and put my "2 cents" in. This 3.0l Lion engine is not an new deaign its been out and used by land rover for many years. Its just new to us techs.
 

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@Kval - In reviewing all three (3) threads on this topic:

Loss of Oil Pressure at idle
Interesting Oil Pressure Issue
Low Oil Pressure Message? (this thread)

I count no less than eight (8) owners who has encountered this issue across these threads:
I would be willing to bet any of these owners would provide RO #s or testimonials regarding their experience if it led to a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) being created that could be used to provide a real/final solution to this issue.

@nkkenme and @Laytunes actually explained what you describe "with the little rubber plug mounted on a spring" in Post #29 and #30 of the Loss of Oil Pressure at idle thread back almost a year ago:

This makes sense. In the filter housing there appears to be a drain back/bypass valve or something like that, it's a little rubber plug mounted on a spring. When your put your new filter in, the filter presses it down. If you were to wipe out the inside of the housing, you run the risk of bending it, which could have been the issue. Just something to watch out for when doing your own changes.
Hats off to @nkkenme and @Laytunes for identifying this earlier! I had completely forgotten about this finding buried within that older post on this topic...

I know from my tractor parts hobby that every part in the parts manual for the engine has a designated MTTF (Mean-Time-To-Failure) Rate associated it that the vehicle manufacturer use to determine the base for how many extra parts to have made and deployed in their parts distribution supply chain. If they were doing this for $10K tractors manufactured 40 years ago, I imagine Ford is doing this for $70K vehicles made today. Ford has this MTTF data for the last 10+ years for this engine that JLR used in Europe.

Good manufacturers then monitor their parts distribution supply chain for "anomalies" where parts are being used at "statistically significant" higher rate then these documented MTTF rates as an indicator of potential problems in the field. Ford has the global view of their parts distribution supply chain and is the best to perform these type of data analytics (guess what I do for a living) to identify issues in-the-field = not a group of owners banding together here in these forums forming a knowledge base...

@Kval - since Ford Corporate Parts Supply isn't investigating why Oil Pressure sending units/switches are failing/being replaced at an alarming rate (higher than JLR historical data) on these "Lion" 3.0L engines, do you think you have enough evidence here to force a TSB to be created for this issue?

BTW - thanks for caring enough to create an account here and providing your "2 cents"
Let me know where you work and I'll put in a good word to your GM = you deserve a raise and a promotion for going above-and-beyond the call-of-duty!
 
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Hey guys, im a Ford Diesel tech and I have came across this issue before. I have replaced the oil pressure switch, checked wiring and all seemed to be ok. Until i noticed the rubber seal that sits under the oil filter, inside the oil filter housing. It most likely broke off when installing the oil filter from a previous oil change. The only way to repair this was to replace the oil cooler housing. Again the time it acted up was after an extended drive and when its at a complete stop.
Thank you Kval! This makes a lot of sense considering the first time I got the low oil pressure message was the day after my second oil change. The dealer eventually replaced the switch and I have not gotten the warning since (fixed in May 2020), but if it happens again I will show them your pictures. I appreciate you weighing in on this problem.
 

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This makes a lot of sense considering the first time I got the low oil pressure message was the day after my second oil change.
@BriGuy - you bring up an important piece of information that makes me ask new questions searching for root cause...

Given the top-side design of this oil filter assembly:
  • Oil filter element is inserted into the outer plastic oil filter cup/bowl that has:
    • A ton of fine threads (more than an inch?)
    • A very large O-Ring
  • Much different design than traditional screw-on oil filter w/seal that mates against engine
    • Looks like the filter "clicks" into place & mounts flush w/top of external cup assembly
      • This replaceable design is more like fuel filter design on my tractors (which I like)
      • I don't see how you can "crush" the oil filter if inserted into the cup properly
  • I assume that one doesn't need to torque the oil cup down like traditional screw-on type?
    • Is it possible that over-torqueing the filter cup could cause the rubber seal to break off?
    • Does anyone know what the torque setting for re-installing oil filter cup/bowl is?
  • I don't do my own oil changes, so I haven't had the filter or cup/bowl in my hands
    • Could this rubber plug inside cooler housing be broken off by Do-It-Yourself oil changes?
      • I know that @Dunrollin does his own maintenance
      • Pretty sure that @RLVoumard has an ESP and does not perform his own oil changes
    • Just trying to figure how/why this seal built into the oil cooler assembly is breaking off
      • Sorry this is the engineer in me looking for root cause failure analysis
With this post, I am by no means casting aspersions against DIYers (more power to ya!), as I think this is also being caused by Ford-certified techs also -- just trying to get to the bottom of this to ensure that owners handling their own oil changes are following the correct procedure and not causing this issue...

I am looking for @Dunrollin to set me straight if I am off-base, since I know he takes pride in handling his maintenance.

Time to survey the original eight (8) forum member who have encountered this issue if they change their own oil?
 

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@jmperlik you and @Kval (my newest best friend) hit it out of the park! Here is what I found.

I have a new filter just sitting around, so I got brave. Took the old filter out with a 32 mm socket and took a look. By the way it only takes about 5 complete circles to come out. I looked into the bottom after cleaning up oil and right there was my little rubber plug, but it is not connected to the metal bracket at all. Just sitting there. The metal bracket was lifted and the rubber plug just remained in place.

This actually seems like a simple fix if Ford would make available a rubber plug with a barb to attach to the metal bracket. That makes more sense than replacing the entire assembly.

Kval can possibly speak to this- I am not sure how a DIY guy can screw this up much worse than a pro, especially since oil changes are usually given to the new guy or just handled at the Jiffy Lube. Not much to it, screw it out and screw it back in.

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What I mean by adding a barb to the rubber stopper is just put the barb on the top so you can replace the factory one. The stopper mounts to a hole in the metal bracket and the barb would keep it in place.
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@Dunrollin - Mystery solved! Talk about grabbing-the-bull-by-the-horns to drive this issue to closure!

So this little rubber stopper becomes disconnected from the brass bracket in the Oil Cooler assembly and basically floats around in the bottom of the Oil cooler assembly that the cup screws into:
  • The intermittent "Low Oil Pressure" warning occurs when the stopper partially covers the oil drain-back hole
  • For those with more frequent warnings, the stopper gets wedged between the bracket and the drain-back hole?
All other members with this issue, this floating rubber stopper would be the first thing to have your dealership to look for.

@lawdog - sorry we didn't get to the bottom of this sooner, as we prematurely lost you as a forum member/owner due to something that could have been easily fixed.

@Kval - I think we have another confirmation that these "Low Oil Pressure" warnings are due to this floating stopper. If this isn't worthy of a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) I don't know what else is...

@Dunrollin - Many thanks to you for diving right into your vehicle and photo-documenting everything along the way. Excellent investigation and photos! You rock!
 
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@Dunrollin - can we get a side-profile view of your rubber stopper similar to what @Kval posted?
  • From your overhead shots, I don't see any damage to your stopper
    • Maybe the entire mushroom top (intended to hold it in place) is torn off?
  • Where in the side-view pic @Kval posted, you can see the top of the stopper is ripped/torn
  • Perhaps it is possible that this stopper can just fall out without any external cause?
    • It's well lubricated!
    • It's under pressure!
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I left home a bit ago but mine was the same as shown with just a small protrusion maybe 1/8 inch, and looked flat on top. No signs of a tear at all
 
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Hey everyone. Thanks for the kind words. I just wanted to share this with all of you and have all your trucks up and running like normal again. Now some of you have mentioned why isnt there a tsb on this yet? And there are plenty of reasons to this. First is what i said before, there have not been many of these concerns to create one, (i personally asked that question to a ford engineer myself). Second is usually about cost. How can we fix this issue that is the least expensive? Third they might already know about this issue and designing a newer way to repair and improve this design. Unfortunately this all takes time. As for the photos i posted, the top view photo is the new cooler i installed. Here is one of the old cooler.
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as you can see, the rubber plug is missing. After draining the rest of the oil in the housing, i found it in a cavity in the housing.
 
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