[getrdun]

Hello everyone,

Hope all are healthy and ready for 2021. Great forum and information. I usually am reading posts but this time I hope to maybe clear up some questions I have and maybe help those looking to get more regen data for future assist.

I got the OBDLink MX+ (with Current Version 5.11.0.1102) in September of this year for a long haul towing trip I made to monitor the regens primarily but to also see a wealth of other information. Curious as to those that have one, if they have the same issue I do and what PIDs do you monitor?

Issue:
1. I use the PID “Normalized trigger for DPF regen” to see the DPF Filter % full and compare it to the trucks which I have turned on via Forscan. The percentages don’t always match. When the truck finishes Regen to 0%, the MX+ Usually says something between 25-30%. Then the %’s seem increase to 100% at different rates (trucks and MX+) with eventually matching or close when above 90%. Then during regen they match downward every 5% decrease to 50% and then the truck continues to 0% while the MX+ slows the downward rate and goes to something between 25-30%. Why don’t they match? Am I using the wrong PID?
2. MX+ for iPhone requires me to connect via Bluetooth every time I get in the truck for it to work. Is there a setting for auto connect BT for less iPhone steps to a faster display of the dashboard? Just try to reduce steps when driving.
3. I did observe the truck would go into regen when not at 100% when I was towing during the trip. Is this normal? I could tell by seeing exhaust gas temps go up to 1100 °F once in a while. After that, I turned off the auto regen and controlled manually but even then, it would occasionally go into regen. Does towing override and it does it’s own regen thing? I was above 5000’ during the 1500 mile towing trip.

PIDs:

I monitor the following 5 Regen related PIDs:
1. Normanlized trigger for DPF regen
2. Exhaust gas temperature bank 1, sensor 2
3. Exhaust gas temperature bank 1, sensor 3
4. Avg time between DPF regens
5. Avg distance between DPF regens

I’d like to see distance and time since last regen but can’t seem to locate those PIDs. Any advice there?

Finally, I’d like to brag on the MPGs of these trucks during long trips: 1) 2,000 mile trip not towing, avg 26 mpg with one 500 mile section getting 30 mpg; 2) 1,500 mile trip back towing uhaul car trailer and 3500 lb car, avg 21 mpg. Very impressive.

Thanks!
Chad

 

[jmperlik]

@getrdun - I'll take a crack at responding to your questions and observations, as I also have an OBDLink MX+ adapter but use FORScan as my software application of choice for monitoring and programming and I am the one responsible for creating the FORScan education thread here on our forums: START HERE: New FORScan user education

First off I think I think we do need to discuss the difference between the OBDLink MX+ Hardware (H/W) adapter (what you plug into the OBDii port underneath the steering wheel) and the OBDLink software (S/W) app (that you can download for free from the Apple or Google App stores) used to monitor the PIDs you are referencing:

• OBDLink MX+ is one of many available H/W adapters used to read OBDii protocol
  • OBDLink LX is a wired (cable) H/W device
  • OBDLink MX and MX+ are wireless Bluetooth enabled H/W devices
• OBDLink app is one of many software (S/W) applications that can be used for monitoring PIDs:
  • OBDLink is the free iPhone app that comes w/your OBDLink MX+ H/W adapter
    • You need to pay $9.99 for the "Enhanced PIDs" for the model year of your vehicle
  • OBDWiz is the free Windows app that comes w/your OBDLink MX+ H/W adapter
• FORScan is an application that you can use for both monitoring and programming
  • Use FORScan Lite for in-vehicle real-time monitoring on iPhone
  • Use FORScan on Windows for programming on laptop
    • FORScan is probably the most popular S/W application for programming
    • FORScan gives you access to all PIDs for many vehicles for many model years

so the PIDs are not really related to the OBDLink MX+ H/W adapter itself = PIDs are codes that map to specific monitoring metrics in the ODBii protocol.

1. I use the PID “Normalized trigger for DPF regen” to see the DPF Filter % full and compare it to the trucks which I have turned on via FORScan. The percentages don’t always match. When the truck finishes Regen to 0%, the MX+ Usually says something between 25-30%. Then the %’s seem increase to 100% at different rates (trucks and MX+) with eventually matching or close when above 90%. Then during regen they match downward every 5% decrease to 50% and then the truck continues to 0% while the MX+ slows the downward rate and goes to something between 25-30%. Why don’t they match? Am I using the wrong PID?

Not exactly sure what real PID “Normalized trigger for DPF regen” in the OBDLink app maps to, but sounds like it maps to either:

• DPF_SOOT_PCT_OL = DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Open Loop)
• DPF_SOOT_PCT_CL = DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Closed Loop)

based on my FORScan monitoring experiences. Note that “Normalized trigger for DPF regen” indicates when to initiate an active Regen but does not necessarily mean that is also is a trigger for when a regen stops/ends.

I have not found any PID that directly correlates to the DPF Full % that is display in your IPC (enabled via FORScan) but rather the DPF Full % appears to be calculated based on a combination of DPF-related PIDs probably including:

• DPF_DP = Diesel Particulate Filter Delta Pressure
• DPF_SOOT_LOAD = Soot Mass in Particulate Filter
• DPF_SOOT_PCT_OL = DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Open Loop)
• DPF_SOOT_PCT_CL = DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Closed Loop)

Here is a list of DPF-related PIDs that I monitor:

What you describe is what I see also via FORScan and I wouldn't be too concerned that your values don't match = You only need to know when Active Regen starts and when Active Regen completes.

It is possible that you don't have access to these PIDs in the "free" version of OBDLink app and they want you to pay $9.99 to unlock the "Enhanced PIDs" = this is one reason people favor FORScan

2. MX+ for iPhone requires me to connect via Bluetooth every time I get in the truck for it to work. Is there a setting for auto connect BT for less iPhone steps to a faster display of the dashboard? Just try to reduce steps when driving.

FORScan will auto-connect the OBDLink MX+ adapter automatically, but you still need to hit the "Connect" icon to connect the FORScan app to the MX+ adapter in order to monitor PIDs. I am looking at purchasing an Edge Insight CTS3 display which is supposed to start monitoring once you start your truck.

3. I did observe the truck would go into regen when not at 100% when I was towing during the trip. Is this normal? I could tell by seeing exhaust gas temps go up to 1100 °F once in a while. After that, I turned off the auto regen and controlled manually but even then, it would occasionally go into regen. Does towing override and it does it’s own regen thing? I was above 5000’ during the 1500 mile towing trip.

You most likely hit the automatic regen at 300 miles max limit = regadless of what your DPF Full % is, your truck will initiate an automatic regen at 300 miles

Not sure if I answered all of your questions, so respond back if you have more questions.

 

[getrdun]

Thanks for the informative response. When you refer to the PIDs you monitor via Forscan, are you meaning the Forscan App...and if so, Forscan Lite ($5.99) or Forscan Viewer (free)? Both can be found on the Apple App Store. Paying doesn’t both me, just wish to find out more of what you use...apps or PC.

I have Forscan on my PC but don’t monitor anything via that when on the road. I only use to change programming.

thanks!
Chad

 

[jmperlik]

Yes, I have the following installed on my iPhone:

• FORScan Viewer (Free in Apple App Store)
• FORScan Lite ($5.99 in Apple App Store)

that look like this when I fire each up:

I use FORScan Lite "Dashboard" view to get real-time monitoring view like this:

to provide a "poor man's" monitoring device using:

• OBDLink MX+ adapter
• FORScan Lite
• RAM Mounts Cup Holder mount + iPhone holder
• Low Profile iPhone charger cable

Last screen capture shows an Active Regen "in progress"

• EGTs 11-14 all over 900F
• DPF_REGN_STAT always shows OFF (wrong) during Active Regen
  • Has always been that way on 3.0L Diesel for some reason

Shoot me a PM if you have additional questions...

 

[jrghac]

@getrdun - I'll take a crack at responding to your questions and observations, as I also have an OBDLink MX+ adapter but use FORScan as my software application of choice for monitoring and programming and I am the one responsible for creating the FORScan education thread here on our forums: START HERE: New FORScan user education

First off I think I think we do need to discuss the difference between the OBDLink MX+ Hardware (H/W) adapter (what you plug into the OBDii port underneath the steering wheel) and the OBDLink software (S/W) app (that you can download for free from the Apple or Google App stores) used to monitor the PIDs you are referencing:

• OBDLink MX+ is one of many available H/W adapters used to read OBDii protocol
  • OBDLink LX is a wired (cable) H/W device
  • OBDLink MX and MX+ are wireless Bluetooth enabled H/W devices
• OBDLink app is one of many software (S/W) applications that can be used for monitoring PIDs:
  • OBDLink is the free iPhone app that comes w/your OBDLink MX+ H/W adapter
    • You need to pay $9.99 for the "Enhanced PIDs" for the model year of your vehicle
  • OBDWiz is the free Windows app that comes w/your OBDLink MX+ H/W adapter
• FORScan is an application that you can use for both monitoring and programming
  • Use FORScan Lite for in-vehicle real-time monitoring on iPhone
  • Use FORScan on Windows for programming on laptop
    • FORScan is probably the most popular S/W application for programming
    • FORScan gives you access to all PIDs for many vehicles for many model years

so the PIDs are not really related to the OBDLink MX+ H/W adapter itself = PIDs are codes that map to specific monitoring metrics in the ODBii protocol.

Not exactly sure what real PID “Normalized trigger for DPF regen” in the OBDLink app maps to, but sounds like it maps to either:

• DPF_SOOT_PCT_OL = DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Open Loop)
• DPF_SOOT_PCT_CL = DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Closed Loop)

based on my FORScan monitoring experiences. Note that “Normalized trigger for DPF regen” indicates when to initiate an active Regen but does not necessarily mean that is also is a trigger for when a regen stops/ends.

I have not found any PID that directly correlates to the DPF Full % that is display in your IPC (enabled via FORScan) but rather the DPF Full % appears to be calculated based on a combination of DPF-related PIDs probably including:

• DPF_DP = Diesel Particulate Filter Delta Pressure
• DPF_SOOT_LOAD = Soot Mass in Particulate Filter
• DPF_SOOT_PCT_OL = DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Open Loop)
• DPF_SOOT_PCT_CL = DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Closed Loop)

Here is a list of DPF-related PIDs that I monitor:
View attachment 2091
What you describe is what I see also via FORScan and I wouldn't be too concerned that your values don't match = You only need to know when Active Regen starts and when Active Regen completes.

It is possible that you don't have access to these PIDs in the "free" version of OBDLink app and they want you to pay $9.99 to unlock the "Enhanced PIDs" = this is one reason people favor FORScan

FORScan will auto-connect the OBDLink MX+ adapter automatically, but you still need to hit the "Connect" icon to connect the FORScan app to the MX+ adapter in order to monitor PIDs. I am looking at purchasing an Edge Insight CTS3 display which is supposed to start monitoring once you start your truck.


You most likely hit the automatic regen at 300 miles max limit = regadless of what your DPF Full % is, your truck will initiate an automatic regen at 300 miles

Not sure if I answered all of your questions, so respond back if you have more questions.

You appear to be very knowlegeable, so I will attempt to ask you a question I've not been able to find a good answer to. I use FORScan Lite to monitor my DPF LEVEL. I have auto regen turned off and it lets me pass that stupid 500 mile cap (2022 f-350). My question is this. The DPF soot level on the truck reads 100 % and I get a message to "REGEN SOON", Yet my forescan lite gage shows only 75%. Which should I trust. Or should I just go ahead and either do a manual or Auto regen right away? I'm thinking that the truck says "soon", so I've still got some miles I can go. I'm a little OCD so would like to get as many miles between regen to save a little fuel lol. Thanks for any insight on this.

 

[jmperlik]

@jrghac - first order of business is to welcome you to our forums, as I see this is your 1st post here!

Second order of business is to mention how you are SuperDuty owner coming here for FORScan assistance = I will take that as a compliment here on our forums, as we are a relatively new group for diesels and a lot of us here are first time diesel owners, but a few of us are computer savvy enough to tackle FORScan and how to use it to monitor/track active regen cycles.

While I have never owned a SuperDuty, I think the systems are close enough that I can take a crack at answering some of your questions based on what we have learned here on the F150 version.

I strongly recommend you read thru a very comprehensive albeit very long thread:

Stuck in regen??? | Diesel F150 Forum​

where we figured out things like:

• In Post #24: How to enable Auto-Regen checkbox in your IPC via FORScan programming
  • @kdjasper "borrowed" this FORSscan programming from SuperDuty forums!
• In Post #46: How to expose/monitor DPF-related PIDs via FORScan:
  • EGTs11-14
  • Average Distance between Regens (DPF_REGN_AVGD)
  • Distance travelled between DPF Full & Re-enabling Auto-Regen (DIST_TRVL_EXFUL)
  • Distance travelled DPF Full Over-Limit (DIST_TRVL_EXOL)
• In Post #55: How our F150 PSDs have an Auto-Regen 300 mile limit
• In Post #58: How to Disable Auto-Regen to surpass this Auto-Regen 300 mile limit
• In Post #83: How stop lights don't terminate an Active Regen cycle
  • AKA You don't need highway mileage for regens

I personally don't do enough highway mileage to be concerned with or have attempted to Disable Auto-Regen to "blow past" the Auto-Regen 300 mile limit on our F150 PSDs. If you follow the same Stuck in regen??? thread you will find that members @kdjasper and @CYODESL did try some Icarus "how-close-can-I-fly-to-the-sun" Disabling Auto-Regen experiments to see how far they could go past that 300 mile limit:

• @kdjasper hit 347.2 miles in Post #74
• @kdjasper hit 406.1 miles in Post #84
• @kdjasper hit 457.5 miles in Post #99
• @CYODESL hit 414.5 miles in Post #106

Both @kdjasper and @CYODESL have shown you can indeed use the Auto-Regen checkbox to disable forced Regen cycle at 300 miles on a F150 PSD. @kdjasper did attempt to calculate a theoretical DPF full via math extrapolation in Post #58 of this Stuck in Regen??? thread. He also tries to calculate what the fuel savings is to using this technique and based on his analysis, I didn't think the effort was worth the savings = he calculated it would save him less than $0.50 in fuel per regen due to the reduce MPG during active regen. Disclaimer: YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) on an F350 SuperDuty!

Using the Auto-Regen checkbox to disable forced Regen cycle is a bit of "Russian Roulette" as I can understand you want to extend the mileage if Passive Regeneration allows it, but eventually your DPF will fill up and one needs to know when you DPF is truly full, so that you don't drop into Limp mode.

IF you truly want to use this technique, I think you will want to monitor a number of DPF-related PIDs in real-time as @CYODESL did in Post #101 in the Stuck in Regen??? thread, as you will need to closely monitor the DPF_SOOT_PCT_CL (Closed Loop) and DPF_SOOT_PCT_OL (Open Loop) to ensure you don't get close to hitting DPF-Full Over-Limit (DIST_TRVL_EXOL). I will defer to @CYODESL as a resident expert on what to look for in these PIDs, as he is a bio-diesel expert and deals with this kinda of stuff as his profession.

Before I answer your questions, I ask that you post back here with the DPF-related PIDs (since we know you are using FORScan) where you are getting these values you quoted from:

I have auto regen turned off and it lets me pass that stupid 500 mile cap (2022 F-350). My question is this: DPF soot level on the truck reads 100 % and I get a message to "REGEN SOON", Yet my FORScan lite gauge shows only 75%. Which should I trust? Or should I just go ahead and either do a manual or Auto regen right away?

I suggest you also add the DPF-related PIDs referenced above to FORScan Viewer (if available)

• DPF_REGN_AVGD => Average Distance between Regens
• DIST_TRVL_EXFUL => Distance travelled between DPF Full & Re-enabling Auto-Regen
• DIST_TRVL_EXOL => Distance travelled DPF Full Over-Limit
• DPF_SOOT_PCT_CL => DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Closed Loop)
• DPF_SOOT_PCT_OL => DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Open Loop)

or upgrade to the paid version of FORScan Lite if they aren't available in the version you have.

Please read up in the link I have provided above and come back with more questions (if you have any)

 

[jrghac]

@jrghac - first order of business is to welcome you to our forums, as I see this is your 1st post here!

Second order of business is to mention how you are SuperDuty owner coming here for FORScan assistance = I will take that as a compliment here on our forums, as we are a relatively new group for diesels and a lot of us here are first time diesel owners, but a few of us are computer savvy enough to tackle using FORScan and how to use it to monitor/track active regen cycles.

While I have never owned a SuperDuty, I think the systems are close enough that I can take a crack at answering some of your questions based on what we have learned here on the F150 version.

I strongly recommend you read thru a very comprehensive albeit very long thread:

Stuck in regen??? | Diesel F150 Forum​

where we figured out things like:

• In Post #24: How to enable Auto-Regen checkbox in your IPC via FORScan programming
• In Post #46: How to use FORScan to expose/monitor DPF-related PIDs:
  • EGTs11-14
  • Average Distance between Regens (DPF_REGN_AVGD)
  • Distance travelled between DPF Full & Re-enabling Auto-Regen (DIST_TRVL_EXFUL)
  • Distance travelled DPF Full Over-Limit (DIST_TRVL_EXOL)
• In Post #55: How our F150 PSDs have an Auto-Regen 300 mile limit
• In Post #58: How to Disable Auto-Regen to surpass this Auto-Regen 300 mile limit
• In Post #83: How stop lights don't terminate an Active Regen cycle
  • AKA You don't need highway mileage for regens

I personally don't do enough highway mileage to be concerned with or have attempted to Disable Auto-Regen to "blow past" the Auto-Regen 300 mile limit on our F150 PSDs. If you follow the same Stuck in regen??? thread you will find that members @kdjasper and @CYODESL did try some Icarus "how-close-can-I-fly-to-the-sun" Disabling Auto-Regen experiments to see how far they could go past that 300 mile limit:

• @kdjasper hit 347.2 miles in Post #74
• @kdjasper hit 406.1 miles in Post #84
• @kdjasper hit 457.5 miles in Post #99
• @CYODESL hit 414.5 miles in Post #106

Both @kdjasper and @CYODESL have shown you can indeed use the Auto-Regen checkbox to disable forced Regen cycle at 300 miles on a F150 PSD. @kdjasper did attempt to calculate a theoretical DPF full via math extrapolation in Post #58 of this Stuck in Regen??? thread. He also tries to calculate what the fuel savings is to using this technique and based on his analysis, I didn't think the effort was worth the savings.

Using the Auto-Regen checkbox to disable forced Regen cycle is a bit of "Russian Roulette" as I can understand you want to extend the mileage if Passive Regeneration allows it, but eventually your DPF will fill up and one needs to know when you DPF is truly full, so that you don't drop into Limp mode.

IF you truly want to use this technique, I think you will want to monitor a number of DPF-related PIDs in real-time as @CYODESL did in Post #101 in the Stuck in Regen??? thread, as you will need to closely monitor the DPF_SOOT_PCT_CL (Closed Loop) and DPF_SOOT_PCT_OL (Open Loop) to ensure you don't get close to hitting DPF-Full Over-Limit (DIST_TRVL_EXOL). I will defer to @CYODESL as a resident expert on what to look for in these PIDs, as he is a bio-diesel expert and deals with this kinda of stuff as his profession.

Before I answer your questions, I ask that you post back here with the DPF-related PIDs (since we know you are using FORScan) where you are getting these values you quoted from:

I suggest you also add the DPF-related PIDs referenced above to FORScan Viewer (if available)

• DPF_REGN_AVGD => Average Distance between Regens
• DIST_TRVL_EXFUL => Distance travelled between DPF Full & Re-enabling Auto-Regen
• DIST_TRVL_EXOL => Distance travelled DPF Full Over-Limit
• DPF_SOOT_PCT_CL => DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Closed Loop)
• DPF_SOOT_PCT_OL => DPF System % of the Maximum Soot Loading (Inferred Open Loop)

or upgrade to the paid version of FORScan Lite if they aren't available in the version you have.

Please read up in the link I have provided above and come back with more questions (if you have any)

Thank you.. I will read up on all the above.. I've been on the superduty forum for a long time and just felt I needed another perspective on forescan, therefore came to this site. Forscan should run about the same for any ford diesel. I'm quite surprised that the f150 has a 300 mile cap. that's got to be annoying. Our super duties have a 500 mile cap. Thank you for the welcome, and will be back.

 

[jmperlik]

I've been on the superduty forum for a long time and just felt I needed another perspective on FORScan, therefore came to this site. FORScan should run about the same for any Ford diesel.

I only ask we talk in OBD PID terms because the IPC messages between the F150 and SuperDuties are different for the same conditions; e.g. F150 will show "DPF Full" in the IPC vs the "Regen Soon" message you get on your SuperDuty.

You may ask why the IPC messages are different? My guess is because OCR (Operator Commanded Regen) is something a SuperDuty owner can initiate on their own (because SuperDuties are considered commercial vehicles) while Ford chose to not provide/expose OCR to F150 PSD Owners, so there is no action (like "Regen Soon") that we can take, but rather it just lets us know the DPF is full...