[bone_scar]

I had a new issue creep up today. Drove total of 700 miles round trip. When we started out on the last 350 miles I had 1300 miles of DEF left. When we got to our destination I have 430 miles left. I have used almost 2 full DEF tanks in 4880 miles. I also notice today that the truck was in a regen burn for 2 hours with 0% full on the filter. I keep a close eye on this to know when it starts to do a burn. It never got over 15% full and would go back to 0% for the most part. Fuel mileage was horrendous 16 mpg over 700 miles with no load. I was averaging 22mpg in the city. Seems to be some sort of reg issue I am now having. Anyone experienced this?

2nd question, what are the symptoms of the EGR flap bolts backing out other than the bolts ending up in a cylinder and granading the motor? Could this scenario be a by product? My truck goes in for a 2nd try on the recall tomorrow.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[jmperlik]

@bone_scar - based on your % DPF full messages, poor fuel mileage, and DEF consumption, it sure sounds like you are stuck in a permanent regen.

I see from a previous post that you are FORScan-enabled. Is FORScan showing anything/throwing any codes?

I am now very interested in the outcome of your EGR recall...

 

[bone_scar]

@jmperlik FORScan shows not errors under the DTC tab.

 

[jmperlik]

@bone_scar - going to assume that this anomaly will be Priority #2 to discuss with your Service Advisor/Service Manager when you are in for your EGR recall tomorrow? Something is not right...

 

[kdjasper]

I agree that this is abnormal behavior.

I keep a very close watch on my regens, which seem to trigger with my type of driving about every 325 miles. I have about 5,2xx miles on mine now, and only 2-3 regens have I observed making it all the way to 100%--my truck seems to kick in regen quite often ~85% full. I try to watch my % Full and try to plan my driving so that I have a longer highway run when I am over 75% Full, then once I get into regen I keep driving ~20 miles until I get all the way burned out to 0%, then watch for it to go back to 5% on the way back up, then I generally don't watch it as closely for about the next 250 miles. To be honest, this regen management the way I have been doing it has me thinking about doing a delete and not having to hassle with it anymore.

So far I have only added 2.5 gallon jug of Motorcraft OEM DEF, and I still have about 5/8 full, so seems my truck is not a heavy drinker of DEF, but I imagine that will change once the ice melts and I start towing my boat around. One thing to know, DEF usage is continuous while driving, not just used during regen cycles. Your type of driving determines how much DEF is needed, with towing or driving loaded down causing greater fuel burn and thus more DEF usage. My DEF gauge mileage remaining has shown unexpected changes in the miles remaining, so now I just go by the gauge and not the mileage remaining.

I am only aware of one forum member that had lost screws in the engine from the EGR, but his truck was throwing a couple CEL's before he took it in for the recall.

I would definitely get your truck into the shop asap and avoid driving it other than to the shop if at all possible.

 

[wreedsvt]

Subscribing.

 

[jmperlik]

@bone_scar - how did your EGR recall go? Your dealer have any insights on your constant regen issue?

I did stop by my dealer and ran your symptoms by my Service Manager. He did tell me it is possible to "drop out of" a regen cycle when driving highway miles = was a surprise to me! He said if you are doing any "hard passing" where you may jump on the throttle for a few minutes to pass slower traffic, you are putting additional stress/load on the engine and it is possible to interrupt a regen for fear of an overheat/runaway condition in the DPF. He told me that you really want to keep things as consistent as possible for the 20-30 minute regen cycle to ensure full regen completion = pretty finicky!

No idea if this might be your problem and would find it hard to believe that this could be happening for an entire 350 mile leg of your trip, but thought I'd throw this out on the forum for comments. I am very interested in what your dealership's Service Department has to say on both your EGR recall & constant regen issue, and if they might be related.

 

[bone_scar]

Recall was done surprisingly quick. Took it in on Tuesday at 10am and picked it up on Wed at 10am. Replaced EGR valve and they reprogrammed the PCM, TCM and NOX modules. They said to keep an eye on it and see if the regen issue comes back with the latest calibration. So far the filter has not hit 100% since the repairs. I don't see any updated version release on the NOX or TCM listed on the paperwork but for the PCM they updated it to IDS version 111.03.The fuel mileage is night and day. Averaging 23mpg in town as opposed to the 16-17mpg before. The transmission is still not right when it hits 4th gear, so I am using sport mode a majority of the time. It seems to drag out 4th acting like the clutches are slipping. I am going to drive it another week and if it doesn't go away I will take it back in.

Overall I am loving the truck. I understand it being the first year its going to have some kinks to iron out. I am not so sure about this commingled 10 speed tranny though.

 

[wreedsvt]

I got the new calibration too, and yes it is a night and day diff in power for me. My MPG was fine. I hope this fixed it for you.

Tranny needs to learn, give it a few days of driving, if still not right in 4-5 days take it back. Mine shifts up and down butter smooth.

 

[wreedsvt]

I would not try to mask it and drive in sport, drive normal, if everything is OK it will smooth out, if not you need to break it now and get it fixed. Just my opinion.

 

[danbart]

So how do you know you are in a ReGen cyle?


Is it just the fuel mileage?




What triggers the ReGen?


Yesterday my DEF was at %100 and I did a 1.5 hr drive, set cruise control at 80 mph and was there most of the drive. Once I got to destination the DEF only dropped to %65.


I would have thought that a 1.5 hr drive on the freeway at speed would complete a full ReGen cycle.


Then on the drive home, 40 min into the drive I look at the DEF and it's down to %0 and I did not notice any changes/differences in the way the truck drove.

 

[wreedsvt]

Mine ticks when its regening. Can only hear it with window down or outside of truck. Stops when regen over. Anyone else notice that?

 

[kdjasper]

Being in Minnesota and still in the deep freeze I have not been driving with my windows down just yet--usually mid-last week of April is the first opportunity for that up here. I can say that I have heard the ticking sound though after I parked in the garage interrupting a regen cycle without realizing I was into a regen cycle.
@danbart it is very hard to know my truck is in regen mode without watching the FORScan mod added Exhaust Filter % Full screen which it appears you have added to your truck as well. You mention driving 80mph during the regen cycle...I haven't driven that fast yet during a regen cycle. I try to plan my travels to be on the highway for at least a 30 mile run when I anticipate I will enter into a regen cycle so that I can fully complete it, which for my truck it always completes within 20 mins of highway driving. There have been times when on these travels I have intentionally driven slower--like 60-65mph in the 70mph zone just to slow down my trip home a bit in order for a regen to begin and complete before I arrive home. Once I enter a regen, I try to keep my speed between 50-70mph for the duration of the regen, and also try to just set the cruise control to keep the speed as steady as possible through the regen. The above approach has seemed to work for me, and my regens happen every ~325 miles +/- a little bit. It is bizarre to me that you didn't complete that regen in that 1.5 hour drive. I would suggest just mentally logging your regens so you learn how your truck handles them--it could be this was a fluke situation that doesn't repeat itself.

 

[jmperlik]

@danbart - I think driving 80+ MPH is keeping your engine "under stress" as the sweet spot is 65-70MPH with the transmission in 10th gear -- this is what I was trying to allude to here:

I did stop by my dealer and ran your symptoms by my Service Manager. He did tell me it is possible to "drop out of" a regen cycle when driving highway miles = was a surprise to me! He said if you are doing any "hard passing" where you may jump on the throttle for a few minutes to pass slower traffic, you are putting additional stress/load on the engine and it is possible to interrupt a regen for fear of an overheat/runaway condition in the DPF. He told me that you really want to keep things as consistent as possible for the 20-30 minute regen cycle to ensure full regen completion = pretty finicky!

By consistent, I should have said "you really want to keep things as consistent as possible by driving at 65MPH for the 20-30 minute regen cycle to ensure full regen completion"

I think regens on the F150 PS Diesels are going to be an on-going owner issue/point-of-confusion, as they seem to want to "hide" these details from us in the instrument cluster.

Why are they doing this? I have no idea, as this Ford Tech Talk: Operator-Commanded Regeneration video on YouTube shows the DPF % Full and manual DPF regen override are available in the instrument cluster panels on some F250 SuperDuty trim levels. If they can offer both of these on our F250 SuperDuty "big brothers", why can't we get them also? This will be by next topic of discussion with my Service Manager the next time I stop by my dealership...

 

[wreedsvt]

Operator Commanded Regen can probably be enabled with Forscan.

Here is some info from a 2017 F250

Enable Auto-Regen Checkbox IPC/PCM 720-07-02 Plain English Not HEX Enable auto regen in IPC and select option 3 under "DPF manual regeneration" in PCM. (Not as built.) screwy Multiple Confirmations

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/...-commanded-regen-in-forscan.html#post18534036

The values look all the same between F150 and F250, I dont see any reason why this would not work on the F150.


I honestly drive enough that I dont need to worry about it, so I may not even monkey with this.

 

[wreedsvt]

All the options are there. Here is a screenshot from my truck.

 

[wreedsvt]

Copy and paste from another site about how OCR works on a 2017 F250

Un-checking the box prevents an automatic regen from starting when the filter gets full. You do get some kind of warning when it gets full, but I forget what it says.
Un-checking the box while an automatic regen is currently running will stop the auto regen immediately.
Checking the box when the filter is full wont necessarily start an auto regen right away, but one will likely begin in the next 0-15 minutes. It simply allows the truck to go into regen if all other criteria are met, it doesn't force it into it.
This can't be used to force start a regen while moving.
This can't be used to start a regen with a filter at less than 100% full.
Activating this with IDS/forscan does also give you the option to initiate a manual regen when the filter is full, but only in park.

In a nutshell, this gives you the 'operator command regen' option that ford offers on xlt and below trucks, plus the ability to enable and disable the auto regen. The only real benefit here, aside from the manual regen, is the ability to prevent an auto regen from starting if you're close to your destination.

 

[kdjasper]

I had an interested regen experience today. My truck will sometimes enter a regen at 85% Full. Last night I was driving home on a long highway run, and truck was at 85%. It was getting late and I was tired, so I was watching my real time mpg graphs and thought I have not yet started the regen so get home and park it in the garage. I have enough experience now to have a feeling when the truck is warming up for a regen if I really pay attention to it, and I suspected it was about to regen just before I got home.

Well, as soon as I parked in the garage DPF % Full dropped from 85% to 80%, so discovered I indeed had just started a regen just before getting home. I could also tell by hearing the ticking sound as things were cooling down after parking it. Since it just started the regen, I didn't have the strong nasty order in the garage which was a relief.

So, this morning, my short 8 mile drive to work that I can get going up to 60mph but have to stop for a couple stoplights and a stop sign and slow down to make a turn. To my surprise, during that 8 mile drive my regen resumed and when I parked at work I was down to 15% Full, and I let the truck idle a few minutes in park until it got to 10% Full. After work I started it up and it read 5% Full and arrived home at 10% Full, so it is back on the upswing with the regen done.

This has me thinking about doing the FORScan mod that would allow me to prevent the regen from starting on its own if I were almost home, but I will take some time to process this before taking that action. Thanks to @jmperlik and @wreedsvt for their posts above providing good info on this.

 

[wreedsvt]

Remember these trucks can do a "passive regen" at highway speeds, which means the EGTs coming from exhaust are hot enough to clean the filter. This is best because its not spraying more fuel into motor to heat up exhaust.

 

[jmperlik]

@wreedsvt - thanks for all the FORScan research on enabling Operator-Commanded Regeneration on our F150 PS Diesels -- the fact that you found it can be enabled for "Fleet" F150 PS Diesels confirms what I found when asking about Operator-Commanded Regeneration for my F150...

I questioned my Service Manager on why this and the DPF % Full are not available in the instrument cluster and his response was pretty straight-forward: Ford doesn't consider the F150 as a "commercial" vehicle where Operator-Commanded Regeneration may be required in the case of DPF Full condition during plowing or towing -- regens are handled automatically "under-the-covers" without the owner/driver knowing.

Unfortunately I haven't tried any FORScan programming yet, as I'm afraid I may get fired for installing Russian-made "free/trial" software on my Windows work laptop, so I am debating whether to go with the Windows 10 on Parallels Desktop virtualization route (as @kdjasper recommended) or just get a used Windows laptop thru my employer's Certified Pre-Owned Equipment program, where I can get a used laptop with Windows 10 pre-installed for cheap = might be cheaper that buying two (2) additional licenses for my MacBook.

@kdjasper - if you don't mind my asking, what did each of the licenses cost you?