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Bump 2 to try to get to page 15...
 

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Discussion Starter #142
I dont have page 15? I do have my options set to show me 40 posts per page.
 

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Seems like this thread has been dormant, but I just spent the better part of two hours reading through things and have come to the conclusion that the 5W40 is the way to go. One artifact I found which I like is the following.

https : //dadistributing.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Motorcraft_Oil_Comprehensive_Sales_Aid-logo.pdf

In the 5w40 diesel section calls out in two places: "Recommended for use in all North American Ford diesel engines over a wide temperature range, from -20 °F (-29°C) to over 100 °F (38 °C)" and "High-performance light- and heavy-duty diesel engine oil recommended by Ford Motor Company for use in Ford vehicles equipped with Power Stroke® diesel engines as in truck, bus, construction and other heavy-duty diesel engine applications, as well as the smaller Ford diesel engines"

Since this says "all North American Ford diesel engines" - I kinda like that.

Whereas the F150 oil or Super Duty oil call out specific models such as: "For use in diesel F-150 and Transit Connect over a wide temperature range from 0°F (-18°C) to over 100°F (38)°C" or "Recommended for use in 7.3L, 6.4L, and 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engines from 0 °F (-18°C) to over 50 °F (10 °C) and 6.7L Power Stroke diesel engines above 0 °F (-18 °C)"
 

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Updating post because I found another offering from Chevron that is FA-4/5W-30/WSS-M2C214-B1 certified: Chevron Delo® 400 XSP-FA SAE 5W-30 (Full Synthetic)

Big difference I see from spec sheets is that the Motorcraft has the lowest viscosity and that should in turn give the most fuel efficiency, moreover the only one on paper that is close is the Mobil 1 Delvac, which coincidentally is the only other oil that is FA-4 certified.... I'm about to change my oil and will use Delvac or Delo just to see how it compares over the next interval on my Blackstone lab results.

So I've seen the WSS-M2C214-B1 spec on both the AMSOil Signature Series Max-Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil 5W-30 and a few other offerings from Mobil 1, Chevron, & Phillips 66 (which to my understanding is who makes Motorcraft brand FA-4/5W-30). AMSOil's website states that they aren't pursuing the FA-4 certification on their product, Mobil 1 & Chevron Oils do have it though. I feel like AMSOil just doesn't want to spend the money on the extra certification, either that or their viscosity isn't low enough (12 & 72 (AMSOil) vs 56 (Motorcraft/FA-4) vs 10 & 62 (Mobil 1 Delvac) vs 9.9 & 59 (Chevron Delo) vs 12 & 75 (Rotella T6)). My lab results showed 9.79 & 58 with a secondary oil filter after almost 10K miles on the oil.






"Unlike OE Diesel, new AMSOIL Heavy-Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil will not be API-licensed. Our philosophy has always been to set a target for quality and formulate products that meet that target. The API licensing system is a voluntary certification that only sets minimum quality standards. Because it is a standard, licensing limits the flexibility we need to quickly adopt new technologies that can improve protection. Our research indicates many diesel enthusiasts and people who depend on their diesel to make a living focus more on protection than on the API doughnut. We are in that camp.... That is why we use specifications like CK-4 as the minimum and engineer protection into our products that goes beyond API standards. We want to give customers the most protection we can, and sometimes that requires opting out of a licensing program. Diesel customers can rest assured their equipment is protected, and we back them up with our warranty"
 

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The Amsoil can't be FA-4 certified either way as the HTHS viscosity is not in the range of an FA-4 oil at 3.5, it is thus a CK-4 oil at heart. The HTHS viscosity is what the difference is between FA-4 and CK-4, not the standard viscosity range. A higher HTHS leads to a high film strength on components, which of course comes with a slight fuel economy cost. The mobil I'd say is a better option than the motorcraft, as the HTHS is at the high end of the FA-4 Spectrum, but I still would go with a CK-4 if you do any towing, or operate in extreme temperatures.
 

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The Amsoil can't be FA-4 certified either way as the HTHS viscosity is not in the range of an FA-4 oil at 3.5, it is thus a CK-4 oil at heart. The HTHS viscosity is what the difference is between FA-4 and CK-4, not the standard viscosity range. A higher HTHS leads to a high film strength on components, which of course comes with a slight fuel economy cost. The mobil I'd say is a better option than the motorcraft, as the HTHS is at the high end of the FA-4 Spectrum, but I still would go with a CK-4 if you do any towing, or operate in extreme temperatures.
Thanks for the additional insight!
 

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So I live where it gets to minus 40.

I am due for first oil change in 2 months....

Should I go 0w40 ?
Yes definitely 0W40, anything that meets WSS-M2C171-F1 Spec, lots of options there. The mobil 1 euro you mentioned doesn't meet this spec however, phosphorous levels (anti-wear additive) are too low since it also has to meet gasoline spec...this stuff fouls gasoline cat's but not diesels. So i'd just make sure whatever you're using meets the above.
 

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Yes definitely 0W40, anything that meets WSS-M2C171-F1 Spec, lots of options there. The mobil 1 euro you mentioned doesn't meet this spec however, phosphorous levels (anti-wear additive) are too low since it also has to meet gasoline spec...this stuff fouls gasoline cat's but not diesels. So i'd just make sure whatever you're using meets the above.
I will probably opt for Shell T6 0w-40.

Thanks.
 

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Not according to the API web site. (API.org) FA-4 oil is not compatable with or interchangeable with the CJ-4 and CK-4 oils. These are are the ones who created the standard.
Literally the only difference between CK-4 and FA-4 is the HTHS viscosity. Everything else, aka, soot control, viscosity grade, emission system protection etc. is the exact same standard between the two. FA-4 has an HTHS of 2.9-3.2, whereas your CK-4 has a minimum HTHS of 3.5. HTHS is the high temperature high shear viscosity measured at 150 C, which is essentially a measurement of the oil film strength, and protection under high heat and tight spots (aka valves and piston rings). All that the "incompatibility" statement means is that if your engine calls for only CK-4 (or CJ-4 etc), FA-4 is not suitable, as it will not provide suitable protection (therefor not interchangeable). Engines designed for FA-4 can use the thin oil as the pumps and bearings are designed to handle this. That said, all diesel engine manufacturers that support FA-4 in their engines (that I have seen), also support/recommend CK-4 oils, so in that respect, they are interchangeable (however since the other way around is really bad, you can understand why they have to say that they aren't compatible). Detroit diesel for example now factory fills their engines with FA-4, however, you will find that most operators quickly move back to using CK-4 oils in their rigs, as they value protection over fuel economy. As a side not the C in CK-4, CJ-4, etc comes from "compression", and the F in FA-4 comes from "fuel economy". I use a 5W30 CK-4 in my truck, have done analyses, and everything looks great!
 

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The issue may have to do with how much Zinc is in the oil. The EPA wants the Zinc removed so your Cat lasts longer. Older engines like the pre 2019 Cummins required zinc in the oil to protect the flat tapper cam. Only exception that I know of is in the EMD diesels that use silver lined main bearings. The zinc will damage them. The oil with zinc should not hurt the 3 ltr engine but can damage the exhaust after treatment system.
 

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The issue may have to do with how much Zinc is in the oil. The EPA wants the Zinc removed so your Cat lasts longer. Older engines like the pre 2019 Cummins required zinc in the oil to protect the flat tapper cam. Only exception that I know of is in the EMD diesels that use silver lined main bearings. The zinc will damage them. The oil with zinc should not hurt the 3 ltr engine but can damage the exhaust after treatment system.
Yup, ZDDP (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphates) is an anti-wear additive. It's the phosphorous component that can foul catalytic converters.. although this only seems to be an issue with gasoline cat's and not diesel ones (different catalysts). The maximum amount allowed under the gasoline SN certification is 800 PPM Phosphorous. Many CK-4 oils limited the additive to that amount in order to achieve the SN certification as well (and increase their market share). Ford however saw increased wear in their diesels with the new oils, and thus pushed their own standard with a minimum of 1000 ppm, and deemed it WSS-M2C171-F1. That is why if using a CK-4, you'll want to have that certification on it. The motorcraft FA-4 however is limited to 800 PPM from what I've seen in oil analyses which begs me to question if the WSS-M2C171-F1 has a point in these trucks, or if any CK-4 will do. Definitely a conflicting message from ford on that. Regardless since higher ZDDP won't hurt a diesel, a little extra in theory is better, so I will stick to oils with that spec. Also important to note is that less ZDDP can also be made up with other additives, like molybdenum and boron, however from what i've seen this also seems to be lacking in the motorcraft FA-4 oil.
 
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