[kdjasper]

I was told by my dealer that the new part has the screws welded in so that they can't back out.

 

[jmperlik]

@kdjasper - I can add those columns (and ask the affected owners for those new fields) but to be honest with you, I'm not sure what it tells us beyond what we already know:

1. Ford F150 PS Diesels represent < 5% of all F150s coming off the assembly lines in one of two (2) US plants: Dearborn, MI and Kansas City, MO
2. Ford 3.0L V6 "Lion" engine is only available in the following model/trim levels: XL & XLT (Fleet orders only), Lariat, King Ranch, & Platinum
3. Ford 3.0L V6 "Lion" engines are only manufactured/assembled in Europe at the Ford plant in Dagenham, UK
4. Issue is with screws in butterfly valve in EGR By-pass vibrating loose/backing-out because they were not tacked/staked down
5. EGR By-pass valve recall affects vehicle build dates September 13, 2017 through October 9, 2018 (Dates from an earlier post in this thread from @RBaker)

I agree the type of info you want added would be very important information in order to perform causal analysis in order to find the root cause of an unknown issue, but in this case Ford has already identified the root cause and the affected vehicle build dates.

Besides truck build date (which each affected owner would need to get from their window sticker or OASIS report), I'm not sure the other attributes provide us any useful additional information. Agree?

 

[mascrappo]

I was told by my dealer that the new part has the screws welded in so that they can't back out.

I hope so. Imagine installing a "new old stock" valve found on some dealer's shelf only to have it fail 4000 miles later? I've dealt with many Parts Departments and some have been really incompetent.

 

[Dunrollin]

Well, I have my 1st update to report. Stopped by this morning, truck still parked where it was left. They have been real busy but they think they will be able to begin diagnosis sometime today.

 

[RBaker]

While my 3.0 was in the O.R. My wife was given some reading material to bring home for me. Just had some time to read through it and feel it’s something I’d like to share.

 

[codywroberts@gmail.com]

Update from me... waiting on parts 26th will be 30 days in the shop💩. I will try to get info for report.

 

[mascrappo]

Update from me... waiting on parts 26th will be 30 days in the shop💩. I will try to get info for report.

Nationwide back order Ford says on their parts site. UGH

 

[wreedsvt]

I wonder why we get different reports of part arrival times. I called in to schedule recall, approx 1 week later they had part and installed it, granted it was missing gaskets and bolts, but they got those Fedex Overnighted in and I was ready to go the next day.

I wonder if Ford is selective on sending parts to high volume dealers? I would think one in Houston is about as high volume for diesel f150 sales as you get. They told me they have done 5 before mine. We have to remember the number of people with these trucks is WAY higher than the number of people on here. Most people come to sites like these with issues.
I live in a good size neighborhood, and there are 2 guys with 3.0 F150s that have never even heard of this site. Both have had recalls successfully done.

Just talking out loud.

 

[Hawkwatcher1]

The EGR in my F250 6.0 was a five minute swap out, just saying when I saw this recall I was really set-back with the repair time you all have had to put-up with. So, what is the difference in the EGR valve in the 3.0 that was used in Europe and the one used in the F150 in the states? I know the F150's is a similar design with beefed-up parts for the truck but this component wouldn't need redesigned would it. I also know components made for OEM's get redesigned with out approval to make them cheaper, that happened to my form employer costing millions in recalls. Sounds to me like Quality Control let Ford, us down!

My truck came with a Drive Train Warranty for Life, nice peace of mind.
I Do love this truck!

 

[Dunrollin]

I stopped in to visit my truck today and get all my personal property off as I needed it in my other vehicle. Very sad to see it just sitting there. Service advisor says they have a diesel specialist scheduled next week to diagnose it.

Not really holding my breath...

 

[Hawkwatcher1]

A line from literature RBaker wife received while his truck was in the shop getting repaired stated. "4. Issue is with screws in butterfly valve in EGR By-pass vibrating loose/backing-out because they were not tacked/staked down." Vibrating loose? Most likely the incorrect torque and the heating/cooling cycle of the screw caused the backing out. What are the materials this flap and the rod its attached to made of? Aluminum, brass, stainless steel, steel, all have different rates of expansion. Does anyone know the temperature of the exhaust gases going thru this valve? I going to guess and say that the more you have started/stopped your truck is a factor more than the miles you have driven it will determine if the butterfly is falling apart. Tacked? How? With a tig welder, wire welder or silver soldered? I am going to ask to see the new part. With my experience in welding and metallurgy, I have done it all and can tell you that its important for this "fix" to last that they do it right. They maybe causing more problems with the "tack" than they have now. I've seen many a weld fail from the wrong application and in all my 43 years in manufacturing and assembly I have NEVER seen a screw TACKED to keep it from backing out in a transmission anyhow. I've tiged parts for assembly but no bolt onto a part. Not knowing the temp of the exhaust gas going through this valve, why didn't they use Loctite 272 High Temp/Strength Thread Locker to begin with or now to fix it? 650 degrees is a pretty high resistance. I'll have to see it, but this fix sounds hokey and knee jerk! Thankful for my drive train for LIFE warranty!

 

[jmperlik]

@Hawkwatcher1 - Point #4 you referenced was not from @RBaker or his dealer but rather my poor layman's analysis of what may have caused the screws to back out:

@kdjasper

1. Ford F150 PS Diesels represent < 5% of all F150s coming off the assembly lines in one of two (2) US plants: Dearborn, MI and Kansas City, MO
2. Ford 3.0L V6 "Lion" engine is only available in the following model/trim levels: XL & XLT (Fleet orders only), Lariat, King Ranch, & Platinum
3. Ford 3.0L V6 "Lion" engines are only manufactured/assembled in Europe at the Ford plant in Dagenham, UK
4. Issue is with screws in butterfly valve in EGR By-pass vibrating loose/backing-out because they were not tacked/staked down
5. EGR By-pass valve recall affects vehicle build dates September 13, 2017 through October 9, 2018 (Dates from an earlier post in this thread from @RBaker)

I will be the first to admit I am no mechanical engineer (but I do have an engineering degree in the Computer Systems field) or welder, so I apologize if my summary is not accurate.

You may be correct that the EGR By-pass valve screws backing out is being caused by incorrect torque & heating/cooling cycle or maybe even a combination of both.

According to several members, Ford's solution was to "weld" (unknown what type of weld process at this point in time) the screws that hold the butterfly valve in place:

• From the pictures posted, there appears to be a weld/burn mark on the shaft in between the two (2) screws but no weld on top of either screw
• Could it be possible they hit the shaft with some heat (like from an electromagentic induction weld) to expand the threads to prevent the screws from backing out?
• Maybe some forum members with more of a welding background then me could chime in with what type of weld they think was used in the replacement EGR By-pass valve?

@Hawkwatcher1 - since you have intentionally mentioned multiple times now, can you explain how you got a "Lifetime" Drivetrain Warranty for your truck?

 

[Hawkwatcher1]

Sorry for the confusion. But Ford has told people that the screws are welded, right?


answer to the question from jmperlik: - since you have intentionally mentioned multiple times now, can you explain how you got a "Lifetime" Drivetrain Warranty for your truck?


Some of the Ford Lincoln Dealers in Iowa are giving this warranty on all their new vehicles. Some another dealers are offering 20year/200, 000 mile warranties now. The dealer my truck came from wasn't offering a life time Powertrain warranty. My local dealers price on the truck was discounted the same so I'm pretty sure I didn't pay for the extended warranty in the purchase price. I will pay a $300 deductible after five years. The 20/200000 came out after I bought mine, I would have gone there to get my truck, if the price was right. Powertrain doesn't cover electrical and we know that can be expensive!


The induction welding would be about impossible to due assembled without hurting other parts, bushing for the shaft for example. Do you think this picture is an actual replacement part? Now that you pointed that dark spot out. It looks to be a stamped indent in the valve plate flap to me. The flap looks to be rolled over to make a hole and the indent stops a static pin on the left and the actuator shaft on the right. That way they can slip the flap in and put the static pin in from the side to complete the flap assembly. Its really hard to tell what that flap is made from. It could be cast aluminum the way it bulges out from the sides below the screws. Spot weld maybe, but that's nothing to due with the screws falling out. Welding to thin metal is a job for a Tig welder or Spot welder for sure and you can't weld a steel screw to a aluminum flap for production assembly.

I would like to hear other welders opinions on this "fix".
Has anyone seen the replacement part and had a good look at it? I'm sure going to see what they put my truck!:nerd:

 

[jmperlik]

Not sure why I didn't think of this sooner, but I have recently befriended a 45+ year professional welder at my local brewpub that I hang out at. This guy has had a pretty storied and diverse career covering anything from underwater welding as a Navy SeaBee to contract work for JPL (Jet Propulsion Lab) welding exotic metals in an argon vacuum for pieces that went up in a spy satellite...

Can the next forum member up due to have this FSA performed on their vehicle get some close-up pics of the shaft (especially around the burn mark between the screws) on the new EGR By-pass valve? I will explain to him the whole situation with this recall and ask him for his professional opinion on what type welding process was used in this application. With this guy's background and experience, I am hoping he should be able to tell what process was used, provided we have a good/clearer pic of the "weld" on the new replacement valve/shaft.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jmperlik]

@Hawkwatcher1 - wasn't sure I initially believed your 20yr/200K "Limited" Powertrain Warranty, but sure enough I found it here: https://www.charlesgabusford.com/200k-mile-warranty-faq/

While I love my F150 PS Diesel ad have faith in their product, I'm not sure how Ford US or the dealer can possibly be making any money on this type of warranty, unless they have done some analysis that says that the probability of a single person owning the car for 20 years or 200K miles is near zero... (Warranty is only valid for original purchaser of vehicle)

The FAQ section specifically states that this 20yr/200K "Limited" Powertrain Warranty is not applicable to Diesel vehicles. Did they wave this for you? If so, good deal!

 

[Hawkwatcher1]

Great idea to get a picture from the next guy going in.

A picture of the that part being used would be a great thing to see.

Is this part going into the 2019 3.0 production?

Just did a quick search for a 2019 F150 3.0 at some of Iowa's and Nebraska's biggest dealers. Out of around 438 F150's, not one.

Any one find one on the lot?

I will ask my dealer if F150 3.0's are on hold.

 

[Hawkwatcher1]

I don't have the 20/200000. I didn't know that one is excluding the Diesel. Mine is a powertrain for life. It's underwriter is a company in Arizona.

 

[Hawkwatcher1]

Scheduled my EGR recall replacement today for next Monday. Parts are in KC, will have them delivered tomorrow, Tuesday to the dealership. I will have my eyes on it Wednesday and will get a picture for you guys.

 

[wreedsvt]

Great idea to get a picture from the next guy going in.

A picture of the that part being used would be a great thing to see.

Is this part going into the 2019 3.0 production?

Just did a quick search for a 2019 F150 3.0 at some of Iowa's and Nebraska's biggest dealers. Out of around 438 F150's, not one.

Any one find one on the lot?

I will ask my dealer if F150 3.0's are on hold.

There are 50+ 2019 diesels within 20 miles of me. I dont think they are on hold, but they are probably being moved to areas where they sell more.

 

[wreedsvt]

Alright, this has officially become a little too crazy for me...

@kdjasper and I have been PMing about all of this, since he did a really nice post earlier on in this thread with a summary of all affected owners that we know about from new members who have chimed in with status of their truck on this thread.

I took the time to scour thru this thread to find all affected owners to date and stuck them in a spreadsheet attached below

I plan to create a new thread for just for owners with affected vehicles only to report their date/mileage/codes and we can keep the banter & opinions contained in this thread.

@kdjasper is going to talk to the forum administrator to see if we can get the new report thread made to be "sticky" that stays on the top of the 3.0L V6 Diesel forum.

Any affected owners who want to "fill-in-the-blanks" for missing info or correct anything wrong/incorrect in my spreadsheet, please PM me or respond back on this thread:

• I think everyone here will appreciate if affected owners post ANY codes that show up so we can build a knowledge base here
• Looks like the first symptom is the EGR cooler CEL which indicates the bypass valve is not working and you probably lost a screw
• If you get P259E (TURBO BOOST PRESSURE LOW) or P042E (EGR CONTROL STUCK OPEN), then you may be on your way to engine bucking & eventual engine failure

I will try to keep this spreadsheet up-to-date as new affected owners report in.

Thanks in advance to everyone.

I can make your new thread a sticky if you want.